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Old 06-12-2015, 04:22 PM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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In both homestead and survival firearm discussions one of the first things people add to a homestead battery is a shotgun. I will concede that if it is going to be your only gun, I can agree. Looking back over the past years since we have moved out of town, I haven't used a shotgun once. For varmint control a .22 is easier and more precise and if the game is edible, less damaging. For hunting, I can't see using that amount of lead and powder to bring down a bird when I can whack the head off a chicken instead and rifles are much easier for bigger game. My shotgun has basically rusted away underneath the bed, filled with turkey loads for potential visitors. Does anyone share the same shotgun experience or do you guys actually use them?
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by joejeep92 View Post
In both homestead and survival firearm discussions one of the first things people add to a homestead battery is a shotgun. I will concede that if it is going to be your only gun, I can agree. Looking back over the past years since we have moved out of town, I haven't used a shotgun once. For varmint control a .22 is easier and more precise and if the game is edible, less damaging. For hunting, I can't see using that amount of lead and powder to bring down a bird when I can whack the head off a chicken instead and rifles are much easier for bigger game. My shotgun has basically rusted away underneath the bed, filled with turkey loads for potential visitors. Does anyone share the same shotgun experience or do you guys actually use them?

That's where my shotgun sits with bird load also. But it's there if we need it. And around here meth heads are a real danger and we are on s dead end road . Agree 22 is used for all varmints.

I did use shot gun to shot neighbors cows in behind when they jumped fence into our yard( at his suggestion).
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:44 PM
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Y'all need to get some Buckshot if you plan on stopping people.

Bird shot is notorious for making shallow wounds even at close range.

I wouldn't use anything smaller than #4 Buck Shot

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-...e-box-o-truth/
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:08 PM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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Eh...I'll stick with my turkey loads. Will do catastrophic damage at short range and will not exit through too many walls. At short range they have a very dense pattern. My father, as a police officer, witnessed a man shot at close range with a turkey load and said he was very near to being in two pieces. I believe human flesh has a slightly different consistency than sheet rock. No disrespect meant. Also as far as meth heads, we have them here but even when things go bump in the night it's other things I end up grabbing.
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:33 PM
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That's way see it to. The idea is to stop em . Birdshot will do the trick well enough. Just seeing and hearing the big black 500 pump in a round gets their attention pretty well I would imagine. No one made me a executioner. Only one has that authority in my mind. I get real tired of all the " killers " wandering around forums.
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joejeep92 View Post
Eh...I'll stick with my turkey loads. Will do catastrophic damage at short range and will not exit through too many walls. At short range they have a very dense pattern. My father, as a police officer, witnessed a man shot at close range with a turkey load and said he was very near to being in two pieces. I believe human flesh has a slightly different consistency than sheet rock. No disrespect meant. Also as far as meth heads, we have them here but even when things go bump in the night it's other things I end up grabbing.
I've heard all the theories and all the "shot in half" stories, but real world testing and data from ER's shows bird shot has dismal performance compared to buck shot in any size

But it's your life you're betting on bird shot that won't penetrate an iPhone:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10269799.html

Quote:
iPhone saves life of man shot with a shotgun - Crime -
www.independent.co.uk News UK Crime
A man has somehow managed to survive being shot with a shotgun, after his iPhone took most of the damage.
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:37 PM
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That's way see it to. The idea is to stop em . Birdshot will do the trick well enough. Just seeing and hearing the big black 500 pump in a round gets their attention pretty well I would imagine. No one made me a executioner. Only one has that authority in my mind. I get real tired of all the " killers " wandering around forums.
If you shoot someone, you are using "deadly force" whether it kills them or not.

It has nothing to do with killing, and has everything to do with stopping them before they can do harm to you.

Racking the slide is for Hollywood and TV, because that's the only place it really works.

In real life it just gives away your position

Do your own research and you will find anyone who knows much about the subject will tell you buck shot is the only proven load for fast results
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:55 PM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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Bearfootfarm-your own listed source only lists a second-hand eyewitness report as it's proof for bird-shot not working. My source is also second-hand but one I trust completely. You also say to explore ER reports, in preparation for pursuing a medical degree I spent A LOT of time shadowing in the emergency department if that gives you any idea on fist hand experience. I also see that you are using birdshot as a term for all loads not containing buck, turkey loads are another matter entirely. They are larger than normal shot backed by large quantities of powder, my personal loads being #4 in a 3" shell. You will also note that many people hunt coyotes with turkey loads quite regularly, after seeing the devastation it causes on ACTUAL FLESH one can be made a believer. This thread was not created with the intent of arguing loads but whatever works.

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Old 06-12-2015, 10:04 PM
gundog10 Male gundog10 is offline
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We keep a well cleaned shotgun in the corner of the bedroom loaded with #2 buck shot. If someone is intent on doing my family harm they may get past my big though as nails dog and put me down, but they will not get past that bedroom door. Unfortunately God really has no say who lives and who dies in this world. When it comes to "killers" on this forum, I would rather feed a criminal intent on raping and killing my wife to the pigs then then ask God why these horrible things happened to me.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:10 PM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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I also have no intent on debating the use of deadly force. If someone intends me or my family harm, I will meet it in kind.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:51 AM
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I also have no intent on debating the use of deadly force. If someone intends me or my family harm, I will meet it in kind.
Neither do I.

I'm talking about what loads have been proven reliable, and bird shot (even if the bird is a turkey) is not one of them.

Your Dad exaggerated when he said what he did, since you know yourself, with even the least medical training, it defies the laws of physics.

Quote:
This thread was not created with the intent of arguing loads but whatever works.
It's the load that does the work, and no one is "arguing".

I'm simply telling you the results of lots of testing over the years that proves small shot is a poor choice for self defense even at close range, no matter how many birds or dogs have been shot.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

People can choose to use any shot size they want, but it should be based on actual research and not anecdotes

http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
If you shoot someone, you are using "deadly force" whether it kills them or not.

It has nothing to do with killing, and has everything to do with stopping them before they can do harm to you.

Racking the slide is for Hollywood and TV, because that's the only place it really works.

In real life it just gives away your position

Do your own research and you will find anyone who knows much about the subject will tell you buck shot is the only proven load for fast results
You would make a good cop. First choice is shoot to kill,
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:39 AM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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So bearfoot...I'm not allowed to question your witness accounts but you can question mine? You will also note in my reply that when I used to call coyotes in we would shoot them with birdshot rounds with instantly deadly effects. You can research all you want on the internet, mecca of no one hiding behind a screen, I research quite a bit. However, based on people I trust and the damage I have seen it cause on actual flesh, I have every confidence in its abilities. At close range the patter is incredibly dense and will do massive, deadly damage causing a quick demise for whatever is in its path. I would really rather hear about others uses for shotguns on the homestead than debate whether what people are using is correct.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:01 PM
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You would make a good cop. First choice is shoot to kill,
No one "shoots to kill"

You shoot to stop the attack as quickly as possible, and the proven way to do that is by using projectiles that give 12-14" of penetration.

Racking a pump gun and making remarks about "killers" shows you don't understand the concept of aiming for center of mass, and just want to do the ususal ranting
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:18 PM
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So bearfoot...I'm not allowed to question your witness accounts but you can question mine?

You will also note in my reply that when I used to call coyotes in we would shoot them with birdshot rounds with instantly deadly effects. You can research all you want on the internet, mecca of no one hiding behind a screen, I research quite a bit.

However, based on people I trust and the damage I have seen it cause on actual flesh, I have every confidence in its abilities.

At close range the patter is incredibly dense and will do massive, deadly damage causing a quick demise for whatever is in its path.

I would really rather hear about others uses for shotguns on the homestead than debate whether what people are using is correct.
You can question anything you want

In fact, that is what I encourage everyone to do, and that is why I posted some links to help with that.

When they do the research, they will find, as I stated before, no one who really knows the topic will recommend anything smaller than buck shot for self defense.

Killing 40 pound canines and 20 lb birds has nothing to do with self defense against human attackers

Also, no one is forcing you to "debate" anything, so if you are, it's by your own choice.

Lots of people use shotguns for hunting and target shooting, so I'm not sure what kind of answers you're looking for that aren't obvious
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:25 PM
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The original post was actually in response to the massive amount of recommendations for the homestead battery to absolutely include a shotgun. My observation of my daily activities over the past several years living in the middle of nowhere leaving my shotgun untouched and wondering if others had the same experience. I believe it is a valid question and one I was interested in pursuing. If you aren't, leave.
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Old 06-13-2015, 02:55 PM
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You shoot to stop the attack as quickly as possible, and the proven way to do that is by using projectiles that give 12-14" of penetration.
my comment stands. !!!!
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:57 PM
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my comment stands. !!!!
As do mine
Nothing has changed
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:08 PM
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The original post was actually in response to the massive amount of recommendations for the homestead battery to absolutely include a shotgun. My observation of my daily activities over the past several years living in the middle of nowhere leaving my shotgun untouched and wondering if others had the same experience. I believe it is a valid question and one I was interested in pursuing. If you aren't, leave.
Many people think a shotgun is needed because they aren't accurate enough with a rifle, and it reduces the chances of a projectile leaving your property.

Some can't afford more than one gun, so a shotgun gives them more versatility at a low cost compared to many rifles.

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If you aren't, leave
That's fine.

I'll leave you with your rusty shotgun under the bed and MO can rack his pump to scare them.

But it will be boring when I go, even though MO will try to get in one last shot because that's just how he is.
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:55 PM
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I have a shotgun, single shot 20 ga. made in the 30s i think, well made, maintenence free. I got good aim from all the plinking with the pellet gun but the shotgun is good at night, or on canada geese (one of my friends makes goose jerky).

I like shotguns because they are easy to use and easy to reload, I have reloaded used plastic shells (low brass) with matches and fired off wax slugs with them (wax and metal bits from old wire), unlike rifle rounds its very easy to reload shotgun shells to make them work again. shotguns a game getter, duct tape a flashlight to the end and its good for taking out raccoons at night (took out 2 that way when they were causing problems). if it came to having a gun that i would guarantee i could keep using and would perform well i would rather keep my shotgun.

also have the 177 pellet gun, I use that to plink (and save my only box of ammo for my 22), also use it to take down crows, woodchucks, squirrels, etc with head shots. 500 rounds for $5.
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