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Old 06-27-2015, 01:18 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Default Explain the thinking behind concealed carry permit

I've never understood the need for concealed carry permits. After all, if my sidearm is concealed, who am I bothering? I'm not scaring anyone. I'm not threatening anyone. I'm going about my business and they are going about theirs. Seems to me, if you want to "permit people" (I don't), you should permit those who want to open carry as in, "Excuse me ma'am, do you have a permit to be displaying that weapon out in the open like that?" Anyone want to explain to me?
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Old 06-27-2015, 05:05 PM
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I've never understood the need for concealed carry permits. After all, if my sidearm is concealed, who am I bothering? I'm not scaring anyone. I'm not threatening anyone. I'm going about my business and they are going about theirs. Seems to me, if you want to "permit people" (I don't), you should permit those who want to open carry as in, "Excuse me ma'am, do you have a permit to be displaying that weapon out in the open like that?" Anyone want to explain to me?
It's pretty simple, really: The government infringed on a right. The people complained about that infringement. The government figured out a way to rent that right back to the people.

Here, in Texas, people are acting like we did something great by adding "open carry" to the options that come with renting our right to bear arms in the first place.

At least we're making baby steps towards reclaiming our right.

In fact, a statement by the Supreme Court regarding gay marriage may, in fact, open up the whole license to carry debate in a new way. It will be interesting to watch it unfold.
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Old 06-27-2015, 06:19 PM
JimGagnepain Male JimGagnepain is offline
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In fact, a statement by the Supreme Court regarding gay marriage may, in fact, open up the whole license to carry debate in a new way. It will be interesting to watch it unfold.
What does this have to do with concealed-carry permits?
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Old 06-27-2015, 07:10 PM
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What does this have to do with concealed-carry permits?
As I understand it, the SCOTUS referred to a section of Article 14 and due process when they decided that gay marriage is a right that should be the law of the land.

There's no argument that bearing arms is a right. Some states allow it with a permit but some states don't recognize other state's permits. So, it follows that all states should recognize the right to bear arms.

I look forward to watching this one.

Here's one link that speaks of it a little more.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:11 PM
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But west based his whole thing on the notion that they created a new right - not true .
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:09 PM
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But west based his whole thing on the notion that they created a new right.
Now isn't that a pile of BULL!
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:00 AM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Um, back to concealed carry. What is the thinking behind permitting concealed carry anyway? It doesn't make sense for a police officer to go, "Dude, you're hiding a gun?!?!? Do you have a permit for that?" Seems to me if the cop is going to search you, that's when you'd declare you have a sidearm on you.
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:09 AM
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As I understand it, the SCOTUS referred to a section of Article 14 and due process when they decided that gay marriage is a right that should be the law of the land.

There's no argument that bearing arms is a right. Some states allow it with a permit but some states don't recognize other state's permits. So, it follows that all states should recognize the right to bear arms.
I don't think so. In Heller I believe they went to great lengths to say just because you do something in one state does not mean it goes for all.
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:12 AM
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Um, back to concealed carry. What is the thinking behind permitting concealed carry anyway? It doesn't make sense for a police officer to go, "Dude, you're hiding a gun?!?!? Do you have a permit for that?" Seems to me if the cop is going to search you, that's when you'd declare you have a sidearm on you.
I'm sure each state could be different, but in some you have to tell a LEO you are carrying, so they should know up front.
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:18 AM
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In Texas, if we're carrying and we have an interaction with a LEO - such as a traffic stop or something like that - when we present our operator's license we're also required to present our CHL. Sometimes the officer wants to secure the weapon during the interview, sometimes not.

Interestingly, since getting my CHL I have never been cited during a traffic stop. I think the LEOs know that CHL people are on their side since something like 1/2 of a percent of us ever get into law trouble.
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:33 AM
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Now isn't that a pile of BULL!
No they ruled that denying them was a violation of rights in 14th amendment not a new right. You should read the ruling .
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:15 PM
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I'm sure each state could be different, but in some you have to tell a LEO you are carrying, so they should know up front.
North Carolina requires you to tell the LEO you hae a CCP. Failure to do so could result in the loss of your permit.
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Old 06-29-2015, 01:33 AM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Yeah, I get that. So what is the difference between telling the cop at the beginning of the conversation that you're carrying and having a PERMIT to carry concealed. The issue is disclosing and securing the gun, right? You declare it because a gun is an equalizer and cops like to have the upper hand (i.e.: he has a gun and you don't or, at very least, he makes sure your gun is out of your reach until he is done talking to you.)

So if when talking to a cop I'm going to declare that I'm carrying a gun he can't see, what is the purpose of having a PERMIT to carry that gun concealed?
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Old 06-29-2015, 01:20 PM
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Yeah, I get that. So what is the difference between telling the cop at the beginning of the conversation that you're carrying and having a PERMIT to carry concealed. The issue is disclosing and securing the gun, right? You declare it because a gun is an equalizer and cops like to have the upper hand (i.e.: he has a gun and you don't or, at very least, he makes sure your gun is out of your reach until he is done talking to you.)

So if when talking to a cop I'm going to declare that I'm carrying a gun he can't see, what is the purpose of having a PERMIT to carry that gun concealed?
If I'm simply talking to a cop I'm not going to mention that I'm carrying period. If say I'm pulled over for a traffic violation, and the cop ask to see my license and registration for my vehicle, that's all he's getting. Unless specifically asked whether I'm carrying a weapon, I'm not divulging anything more than the officer needs to know.
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:17 PM
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If I'm simply talking to a cop I'm not going to mention that I'm carrying period. If say I'm pulled over for a traffic violation, and the cop asks to see my license and registration for my vehicle, that's all he's getting. Unless specifically asked whether I'm carrying a weapon, I'm not divulging anything more than the officer needs to know.
If not required by law in your state, that is fine, but as J R Adams stated previously some states DO REQUIRE the police be informed by a permit holder during any official interaction between the police and permit holder.

Most officers around here do not want the weapon, unless the permit holder is in real trouble. They just want the knowledge of dealing with a permit holder.

The police are funny, so rules change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. My son is a probation & parole officer, and is in numerous courts in official capacity on a weekly basis. One of his first appearances in a new district court, when he approached the metal detection unit he provided his ID and handed his duty weapon to the officer in charge. The officer questioned why he was handing him his weapon. The sons response was the city court required everyone's weapon be turned in except uniformed police officers.

The officers response was put that weapon back in its place, here we want every "good guy" with a gun possible in case something goes wrong, and if it should, we expect back-up from every one authorized to carry. He continued the city may have a bunch of fools running things, but here we want to stop trouble immediately, and the more help I have, the better my chances of surviving and I know that for a fact. Just don't let me down son.
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:00 PM
J R Adams J R Adams is offline
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If I'm simply talking to a cop I'm not going to mention that I'm carrying period. If say I'm pulled over for a traffic violation, and the cop asks to see my license and registration for my vehicle, that's all he's getting. Unless specifically asked whether I'm carrying a weapon, I'm not divulging anything more than the officer needs to know.
To add at my earlier post: A North Carolina drivers license has a note in the data base that you have a CCP so the LEO will know then that you have a CCP if he runs your license. Hence, not being up front with the information could cost you your CCP.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:34 PM
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I've never understood the need for concealed carry permits.
To get back to the original question, we could expand the inquiry to ask why have any permits for weapons at all: if you are about to commit a crime with a weapon, you're certainly not foolish enough to use your own, registered weapon. You will first steal another weapon, so registration laws only ensure that two, not one, crime will be committed.

The real purpose of gun registration laws is to identify who has weapons so that they may be more easily confiscated when a tyrannical govt tries to take over. I pity the poor army that ever tries to invade the US. We only need our armed forces to fight foreign wars. We can take care of ourselves here at home.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:29 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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If I'm simply talking to a cop I'm not going to mention that I'm carrying period. If say I'm pulled over for a traffic violation, and the cop ask to see my license and registration for my vehicle, that's all he's getting. Unless specifically asked whether I'm carrying a weapon, I'm not divulging anything more than the officer needs to know.
I do just so he doesn't get nervous and as a courtesy. I usually have to reach somewhere to get my license and registration out so I tell them every step of the way what I'm doing. On the flip side, I had a CCP in another state but rarely carried since I was always running into places where it wasn't allowed (school, work, etc). Anytime I got stopped the cop was sure I was lying because I had the permit but would say over and over again that there was nothing in the car. I refuse to get a CCP again. I disagree with the practice and I'm not revealing to anyone what we own. As far as everyone knows it all got sold off and left in the previous state.

Again, I think it is stupid to require a permit to carry concealed but carrying open is no big deal. Seems arse backwards to me.
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Old 06-30-2015, 01:31 AM
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To get back to the original question, we could expand the inquiry to ask why have any permits for weapons at all: if you are about to commit a crime with a weapon, you're certainly not foolish enough to use your own, registered weapon. You will first steal another weapon, so registration laws only ensure that two, not one, crime will be committed.

The real purpose of gun registration laws is to identify who has weapons so that they may be more easily confiscated when a tyrannical govt tries to take over. I pity the poor army that ever tries to invade the US. We only need our armed forces to fight foreign wars. We can take care of ourselves here at home.
Doc, I would hope so, but I have heard, "I'd rather be Red than dead!", so many times over the past many years I'm not sure any more. Then look at all the pacifist and draft dodgers during the Vietnam conflict, although there seems to be more patriotism now than during the Vietnam era. But a conflict on our own soil could sway the balance against the invaders.

Unfortunately, I believe Khrushchev's words will be prophetic, even though he did not live to see his prophesy full filled. This country will not fall from invaders, but from within.

With people marching in the streets and clamoring for police officers to be killed (essentially calling for anarchy), the American Flag to be did away with, and American history to be re-written to their satisfaction the walls are already crumbling.

I probably should not have deviated from the subject, but normal conversations don't always follow a straight path either.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:16 PM
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Ask the NRA they kept pushing permits. When I was a director in scopeny.org some of us kept asking the name questions.

The responces were near priceless
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