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  #41  
Old 07-10-2015, 08:01 AM
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Why was carrying concealed ever illegal?
Most laws against concealed weapons don't cover firearms alone, and were put in place to make it easier to arrest criminals, and hopefully to reduce crime

The permitting process allowed police to control who could carry and not be worried about getting arrested, and many of the first "gun control" laws came about after the Civil War to keep blacks from having guns.

Cities also had their own laws which tended to be very restrictive.

The licensing for concealed guns today is a fairly recent phenomenon that started in the mid 90's and has expanded to nearly all states now.

Most of the people I know that have one are pretty well trained, and were shooters long before they got the permits.

The training isn't just about "competence" in handling to gun, but also about the situations in which it's legal to use deadly force, which vary from state to state.

There are still lots of weapons in most states that are illegal to carry concealed
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2015, 11:07 AM
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" some " southern states did enact black gun laws but not many. The history of real national gun control laws originated in the 30's. The Feds had to have something to do when prohibition ended . The big one was the federal fire arms act of 1938.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blguntime.htm

In Missouri the cc permits require training in Handling and using a gun( classroom and live fire at a range). Most classes at least 50 rounds. But the law is hit the target 15 out of 20 b27 at 7 yards.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2015, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
I've never understood the need for concealed carry permits. After all, if my sidearm is concealed, who am I bothering? I'm not scaring anyone. I'm not threatening anyone. I'm going about my business and they are going about theirs. Seems to me, if you want to "permit people" (I don't), you should permit those who want to open carry as in, "Excuse me ma'am, do you have a permit to be displaying that weapon out in the open like that?" Anyone want to explain to me?
Ain't it funny how upside down the world has become. In other words, good has become bad and bad has become good. I grew up in a time that you carried where the honest world could see. Bad Guys are the ones that hid their guns

It is simple really the SHEEPLE thought if they couldn't see the gun it didn't exist
So since people That hid their firearm want the "surprise", so they can shoot someone. Then the government , we can make money off this and control who gets guns too.. let's put our permission on it, so it sounds legit

I carry where the honest world to see. Far more constitutional then hiding it

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Originally Posted by J R Adams View Post
North Carolina requires you to tell the LEO you hae a CCP. Failure to do so could result in the loss of your permit.
Just to clarify. In NC it is a CHP. Not sure what you mean by a CCP (concealed carry pistol?). You only have to tell if you are hiding a firearm. You don't have to say if you have a permit,unless you are hiding your firearm.

If you are carrying open there no reason or obligation to say any thing, in line with the fourth admendment
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2015, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
You see, that gets to the heart of my original question! WHY? Why was carrying concealed ever illegal? No one even knows you have the gun on you! Why make that illegal? Why a permit? If carrying concealed was deemed legal, then why permit the activity especially when carrying out in the open (which, apparently, scares the bejezzas out of everyone) is just fine - no class, no permit, etc.

WHY? Why does carrying concealed require a permit?
Again, bad guys hid their guns. Same thing, that they used sawed off shotguns and switch blade knives

SHEEPLE thought if they couldn't see a gun it didn't exist. Also the government thought if they could control who gets one, they could eliminate who they wanted to not have one.

Carry and carry everyday. I carry every day as the constitution says. In NC we don't need the government permission
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2015, 11:14 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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CCP = Conceal Carry Permit

I just read today that Maine is now allowing concealed carry WITHOUT a permit.

"This means Maine joins Alaska, Arizona, Kansas, Montana, Vermont and Wyoming in permitless carry."

Yeah! I'm not crazy. Others see how stupid it is to have a CCP system. Maine is keeping their system in place so residents can get a permit that would be reciprocal with other states (although you just need to apply to Utah where you can get a CCP without even being a resident.)
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  #46  
Old 07-11-2015, 07:12 AM
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The big one was the federal fire arms act of 1938.
Not really, since that one only applied to those selling guns for a living

The 1934 Act stopped the sale of machine guns without a special process, and the 1968 act stopped all mail order sales.

In 1986, the sale of all new machine guns to the public was halted

Permits laws are state laws, since there are no Federal "permit" requirements
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  #47  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
I've never understood the need for concealed carry permits. After all, if my sidearm is concealed, who am I bothering? I'm not scaring anyone. I'm not threatening anyone. I'm going about my business and they are going about theirs. Seems to me, if you want to "permit people" (I don't), you should permit those who want to open carry as in, "Excuse me ma'am, do you have a permit to be displaying that weapon out in the open like that?" Anyone want to explain to me?
What’s so hard to understand? Many of the various states’ concealed handgun carry laws evolved from local law enforcement problems which regional police agencies faced during the early 20th Century, here, in the United States. (The same way that today’s same sex marriage laws are byproducts of popular thinking in early 21st Century America.)

For example: New York City’s infamous 1860’s draft riots set the legislative tone, and ultimately led to a highly restrictive ban on the public possession of handguns when the statewide, 1911 Sullivan Act was passed into law.

Similarly the extreme violence of America’s Prohibition Era was the causative factor that ultimately led to creation and adoption of the National Firearms Act of 1934. Finally the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy provided the legislative impetus behind the national Gun Control Act of 1968.

Perhaps the most onerous of America’s firearm restriction laws was passed by congress back in 1994. It was, of course, the 10 year ban on, ‘assault weapons’ and standard capacity pistol magazines. The cause of the 1994 ban was, most likely, the 1989 massacre of schoolchildren in Stockton, CA.

Pragmatically, the ban proved itself to have little, if any, redeeming social value; and it was allowed to expire in 2004. Numerous legislative attempts have been made to resurrect it; but, so far, no succeeding public massacre has provided sufficient legal impetus.

All gun laws are, then, ‘legislative products’ of their day. These laws come about, as most laws do, as consequences of public problems which both federal and state legislators, and their respective law enforcement agencies have to face. Again, I have to wonder, ‘Why’ the underlying causative factors behind America’s numerous firearm laws are so difficult to understand? Got a problem? Pass a law!

To be perfectly candid: Rather I would think THE ROOT CAUSE, OR CAUSES, OF THE PROBLEM should be analyzed and legislated against rather than any symptomatic consequence(s). First solve the disease; and, then, the symptoms will disappear! (I’d be glad to tell you exactly, ‘What’ the problem is; but, experience has already taught me that most people wouldn’t get it, anyway. Some things, especially to certain people, are, perhaps, best left unsaid.)

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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
Really?!?!?! We bought bullets and it was nearly 30 minutes while they did the background check - on bullets! Imagine if we were buying a gun! ……
Forgive me for questioning its veracity; but, that’s a very odd remark.

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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
It isn't the store. I don't know if it is a state or federal law, but we run into that no matter where we shop.
Once again, I’m incredulous; (and I do spend a lot of time on internet gun forums.) Never heard of such a thing; AND, the 1968 GCA’s once strenuously enforced national requirement to log all ammunition sales was completely withdrawn all the way back in 1986.

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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
You see, that gets to the heart of my original question! WHY? Why was carrying concealed ever illegal? No one even knows you have the gun on you! Why make that illegal? Why a permit? If carrying concealed was deemed legal, then why permit the activity especially when carrying out in the open (which, apparently, scares the bejezzas (SIC) out of everyone) is just fine - no class, no permit, etc.

WHY? Why does carrying concealed require a permit?
Oh, wow! Back it up! ‘No one even knows you have the gun on you!’ THAT is a logical non-sequitur. It is NOT the point! Rather I would ask, ’Why’ is it so difficult to understand that,

THERE ARE OCCASIONS WHEN IT’S QUITE USEFUL TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE OTHER GUY IS LEGALLY ARMED.

Police work is already difficult enough. Why make it harder? In 21st Century America it’s quite useful for a law enforcement officer to know whether or not an interviewee is legally carrying that handgun he’s got hidden under his shirt. Do you know, ‘Why’ Timothy McVeigh was initially arrested and brought in for questioning? It wasn’t for lack of a license plate; it was for revealing an unlicensed handgun, instead.

The succinct obvious answer to your question is, ‘PUBLIC SAFETY’. A lot of police officers have had an easier time of it, and been allowed to finish their shifts, unscathed, because they were able to quickly discover that the individual they are talking to is,

LEGALLY LICENSED TO CARRY - LICENSED TO CARRY!

Which, out in the real world, means that the state, and/or federal government has already certified that particular individual as being (What is the correct legal term?) ‘SQUEAKY CLEAN’. Something that it’s always good to know whenever you’re out at 2:00 o’clock in the morning, talking to someone along an isolated byway, whom you’ve never met before.

(Welcome to the real world!)
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  #48  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
Really?!?!?! We bought bullets and it was nearly 30 minutes while they did the background check - on bullets! Imagine if we were buying a gun! ……
There are no background checks for ammunition purchases that I've ever heard of.

Can you provide some details?
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  #49  
Old 07-16-2015, 12:11 AM
blackpowderbill Male blackpowderbill is offline
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
Really?!?!?! We bought bullets and it was nearly 30 minutes while they did the background check ... on bullets! Imagine if we were buying a gun!

We also recently bought TIPS for our archery arrows. TIPS! They were target tips, not even hunting tips. We had to show ID.

It is getting ridiculous out there!
Unless your state requires it their is no federal process for checks on ammo. I think you were being feed a line of crapola!!

Does Mississippi have a check for ammo purchases???
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  #50  
Old 07-16-2015, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinger;41

Oh, wow! Back it up! ‘[COLOR="DarkRed"
No one even knows you have the gun on you![/COLOR]’ THAT is a logical non-sequitur. It is NOT the point! Rather I would ask, ’Why’ is it so difficult to understand that,

THERE ARE OCCASIONS WHEN IT’S QUITE USEFUL TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE OTHER GUY IS LEGALLY ARMED.

Police work is already difficult enough. Why make it harder? In 21st Century America it’s quite useful for a law enforcement officer to know whether or not an interviewee is legally carrying that handgun he’s got hidden under his shirt. Do you know, ‘Why’ Timothy McVeigh was initially arrested and brought in for questioning? It wasn’t for lack of a license plate; it was for revealing an unlicensed handgun, instead.

The succinct obvious answer to your question is, ‘PUBLIC SAFETY’. A lot of police officers have had an easier time of it, and been allowed to finish their shifts, unscathed, because they were able to quickly discover that the individual they are talking to is,

LEGALLY LICENSED TO CARRY - LICENSED TO CARRY!

Which, out in the real world, means that the state, and/or federal government has already certified that particular individual as being (What is the correct legal term?) ‘SQUEAKY CLEAN’. Something that it’s always good to know whenever you’re out at 2:00 o’clock in the morning, talking to someone along an isolated byway, whom you’ve never met before.

(Welcome to the real world!)
I apologize for shorting you post. Some very intelligent response. Couple of things I would like to point out
I open carry so you will Lways know if I am.carrying or not, but basically if.I am awake I am carrying. That being said, it is no government official business if I am carrying or not. I am not guilty of.anything until I do it.
Another point I would like.to make is carrying a gun is a right, thus not subject to licensing. But hiding a gun is a privilege,just like driving is a privilege, so hence the licensing.
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  #51  
Old 07-17-2015, 11:12 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
But hiding a gun is a privilege ...
It is? Says who?

I have a right to privacy, don't I? The givernment isn't entitled to know everything about me. I'm not required to tell them everything.
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  #52  
Old 07-18-2015, 06:32 PM
papa bear papa bear is offline
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
It is? Says who?

I have a right to privacy, don't I? The givernment isn't entitled to know everything about me. I'm not required to tell them everything.
Actually my post totally agree with you. What part of it is none o..the government's business, did you not understand?

It is a privilege, just common knowledge
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  #53  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
It is? Says who?

I have a right to privacy, don't I? The givernment isn't entitled to know everything about me. I'm not required to tell them everything.
They don't want to know everything about you, but if you want to legally carry a concealed weapon you will have to supply some information.

If you think that violates your privacy, then don't carry a gun
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  #54  
Old 07-21-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
They don't want to know everything about you, but if you want to legally carry a concealed weapon you will have to supply some information.

If you think that violates your privacy, then don't carry a gun
that really is a Tory statement

of course they want to know anything that would hurt their power. you want privacy and you should carry a gun.
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  #55  
Old 07-21-2015, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post

If you think that violates your privacy, then don't carry a gun
If the patriots had that attitude about laws in 1776, we'd still be singing God Save the King instead of the Star Spangled Banner.
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  #56  
Old 07-21-2015, 09:58 PM
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If the patriots had that attitude about laws in 1776, we'd still be singing God Save the King instead of the Star Spangled Banner.
Only about 3% took an active role

The choices now are do it legally, carry illegally and risk going to jail, or don't carry at all, and some are better off to just not to carry
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  #57  
Old 07-24-2015, 11:26 AM
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Catherine, the answer you are looking for is probably one word. "Control". The only real useful reason I can come up with is if you ARE for some reason searched by a LEO, or end up having to use your CCW, the LEO's can immediately know by the permit that you do not have a criminal history and are likely not a threat to them.
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  #58  
Old 07-28-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
Yeah, I get that. So what is the difference between telling the cop at the beginning of the conversation that you're carrying and having a PERMIT to carry concealed. The issue is disclosing and securing the gun, right? You declare it because a gun is an equalizer and cops like to have the upper hand (i.e.: he has a gun and you don't or, at very least, he makes sure your gun is out of your reach until he is done talking to you.)

So if when talking to a cop I'm going to declare that I'm carrying a gun he can't see, what is the purpose of having a PERMIT to carry that gun concealed?
In Florida it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon without a license. Since I am a law abiding citizen, and do not wish to perhaps jeopardize my right to even own a firearm if caught carrying without a license, I obtained said license.
Constitutional arguments aside, this is the law, so I obey the law.
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  #59  
Old 07-28-2015, 02:37 PM
Lurch Male Lurch is offline
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Originally Posted by rice paddy daddy View Post
In Florida it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon without a license. Since I am a law abiding citizen, and do not wish to perhaps jeopardize my right to even own a firearm if caught carrying without a license, I obtained said license.
Constitutional arguments aside, this is the law, so I obey the law.
While I agree with your post, I believe that the OP's intention was to ask what the reasoning was to have the need for a concealed carry permit in the first place. Not to discuss the legality of the issue. After all, just because there is a law, does not mean that it is right.
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  #60  
Old 07-28-2015, 10:57 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Thanks Lurch. FINALLY a sane response from someone who gets it.
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