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  #1  
Old 07-01-2015, 11:12 AM
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Default Is Greece our crystal ball?

In case you haven't Greece, a Eurozone country, has defaulted on a $1.7 billion payment on a $360 billion debt which was a bailout for their faltering economy a few short years ago.

Puerto Rico is in similar circumstances but for much less moolah. I've seen several prognosticators discuss how this is going to end up. I won't try to add to the confusion.

I simply want to point out that Greece may simply be a little further down the slope than are we in the U.S.of A. We can observe, in real time, a version of the collapse, or near collapse of an economy just like we read in all the "after the collapse" dystopian novels we so avidly read.

If I were to predict, I would be inclined to say that even though Greece is in default, the creditors really aren't interested in calling the note because, in the long run, what do you do with a whole country that has failed?

Is Greece a peek into the future of the U.S.of A.? Maybe. I think we will find that their economic collapse will not be as clear cut and complete as many of us would expect. Or -- the world may find itself absorbing a few million refugees. Who knows? Stay tuned.
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2015, 01:56 PM
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No I don't think so. First I don't believe they defaulted yet - close but I suspect a deal will be reached. It isn't a default until the creditor (the IMF) says it a default. I think that is just like a mortgage when you can be behind in payments but not in default unti the bank says you are. In this case IMF will probably not let it happen as you say. The problem is the people there won't give up thier socialist ways.

May be wrong but way I understand PR problem is they are tied to America and have no control over thier own currency it decisions.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:04 PM
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If something doesn't change here, we are going to a socialist nation before we know it.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:41 PM
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The headlines about this do make me nervous to a point...
That being Greece having emerged from the 1940s and early 1950s as a pretty modern country with what was thought to be a pretty solid foundation to it... Many other countries near there were and still are very little better off than 3rd world countries...

As an example of what I would consider a "best case result" of this type situation... It was Greenland ?, Iceland ? that went through a financial issue must be 3-5 years ago now ??? This country defaulted to some organization in Europe.... They pulled up there big boy pants, took there losses, the citizens made the changes to there daily lives to live within there means...

Several national level bankers, went to jail for "creative handling of depositors money".... That is the best way I can think to describe it at this moment... But they had the guts to take back there countries management and do what needed done...

I can't help but wonder if Greece, California, Detroit and who ever else would have the guts, willpower, fortitude to follow through on "making things right" Or sit back and wait for someone to do it for them...

KnowwhatImean....
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:59 PM
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Yes.
The US is on a similar debt path as Greece ( http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2567326 ).
Some would argue we have the advantage of the dollar being the world reserve currency.
But we have seen Russia, China and other countries already aligning themselves for a post US Dollar world.
With the continuing shrinking middle class, economic inequality, at some point, the US will run out of money to fund social programs.
The rich know how to hide or move their money where the US government can not get to it.
I am already anticipating a world in which they raise the retirement rate to 70-something, with reduced benefits. For that matter, I do not expect SS to be there for me at all.
And plan accordingly.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:34 AM
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the dollar will continue to be the world currency. Any thing to the contrary is pure folly or promoted by the gold sellers . Do you really think the world will adopt a currency is totally controlled by a single totalitarian govt ? Not hardly and there is no alternatives to the dollar . Period .

By the way I see nothing wrong with a 70 age for retirement . Tge Greeks are a perfect example of. A society that retires at 50 and then expects govt should take take of them for life.


America is not like that . Greece is no comparison !

Remember what Churchill said : America always does the right thing after trying everything else .
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:52 AM
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A couple points to consider:

-Unemployment among younger Greeks is around 50%; Greek retirement age is 55. Who's paying into the system and how long are retirees receiving benefits? A 10y/o can do the math to see they're doomed to failure.

-85% (!!) of the Greek economy is based on tourism. The Greeks don't "produce" anything of real value.

-US govt debt is $17.5T (!!) and GDP is only $17T. We owe more than we make as a country in one year. And the debt is getting worse.

-Any American less than 40y/o has no idea what a free country is. Regulations (socialism) are imprsioning us. Seven yrs of Obama's anit-American policies have prosduced more new regs (and debt) than all previous administrations combined.

-As Margaret Thatcher once said,"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissouriFree View Post
the dollar will continue to be the world currency. Any thing to the contrary is pure folly or promoted by the gold sellers .
And yet, we see the de-dollarization continuing to happen. Russia, China, other BRICS countries conducting business in currencies other than the dollar.
South Korea, Australia, both doing business in other currencies other than the dollar.
If there is any folly it is in the continued belief things will continue on as usual in the face of obvious changes occurring now. The economic centre is shifting away from the US to Asia.

Quote:
Do you really think the world will adopt a currency is totally controlled by a single totalitarian govt ? Not hardly and there is no alternatives to the dollar . Period .
Which totalitarian government are you referring to?

Quote:
By the way I see nothing wrong with a 70 age for retirement . Tge Greeks are a perfect example of. A society that retires at 50 and then expects govt should take take of them for life.
We do the same thing here in the US.
The middle class is expected to fund social programs for everyone else, from SS, to welfare to healthcare. Wages have been stagnant for the middle class not rising, and in some cases falling. Cost of living has increased, with wages not reflecting those increases.


Quote:
America is not like that . Greece is no comparison !

Remember what Churchill said : America always does the right thing after trying everything else .
Perhaps you should read the book Rising '44. It is about the Rising in Nazi occupied Warsaw Poland.
The lack of US support is appalling.
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
A couple points to consider:

-Unemployment among younger Greeks is around 50%; Greek retirement age is 55. Who's paying into the system and how long are retirees receiving benefits? A 10y/o can do the math to see they're doomed to failure.

-85% (!!) of the Greek economy is based on tourism. The Greeks don't "produce" anything of real value.

-US govt debt is $17.5T (!!) and GDP is only $17T. We owe more than we make as a country in one year. And the debt is getting worse.

-Any American less than 40y/o has no idea what a free country is. Regulations (socialism) are imprsioning us. Seven yrs of Obama's anit-American policies have prosduced more new regs (and debt) than all previous administrations combined.

-As Margaret Thatcher once said,"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."
Quite right, and well said.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMonolith View Post
And yet, we see the de-dollarization continuing to happen. Russia, China, other BRICS countries conducting business in currencies other than the dollar.
South Korea, Australia, both doing business in other currencies other than the dollar.
If there is any folly it is in the continued belief things will continue on as usual in the face of obvious changes occurring now. The economic centre is shifting away from the US to Asia. [
So what that does not have anything do with world reserve currency - except in minds of conspiracy buffs and thisevwhobreaf to much political spin from one side or the other.

In fact the dollar is stronger than ever.
Right now the euro below 1 .

http://www.economist.com/news/leader...mismatch-point

ADDED
I would also note that China has no desire to see the dollar fail. Strong dollar make their product more marketable in America - CHINA's biggest customer and one they can not do without especially with thier economy slowing like it is.
Anyone that talks the rmb becoming the reserve currency is reading to many conspiracy forum sir hold sellers.


Quote:
We do the same thing here in the US.
The middle class is expected to fund social programs for everyone else, from SS, to welfare to healthcare. Wages have been stagnant for the middle class not rising, and in some cases falling. Cost of living has increased, with wages not reflecting those increases.
No we don't. Our retirement age is growing. I am decidedly middle class and am sick to death of this middle class crap. If they are not happy with thier lot in life do something about it. most taxes come from the rich not the middle class. The top 10 %of earners pay well over 60% of the taxes. Just a nice of whiners. Keep whining and " rich" will leave.
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Last edited by MissouriFree; 07-03-2015 at 07:41 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2015, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoF
world will adopt a currency is totally controlled by a single totalitarian govt
Isn't that what the world has now???---I suspect that we will be seeing a new sort of world currency based on some insane idea or another with in the next few years, or China just might start backing their yuan with gold--making it much more desirable than anything on the planet today.

JVC
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:08 PM
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Isn't that what the world has now???---I suspect that we will be seeing a new sort of world currency based on some insane idea or another with in the next few years, or China just might start backing their yuan with gold--making it much more desirable than anything on the planet today.

JVC
You or I may not like some of the govt policies but we are far far far from a totalitarian or socialist govt not matter what some like to say .
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:44 AM
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Raising retirement age in US: Great idea! Keep older folks with the better paying jobs working longer so young people have a harder time trying to get a job or to advance. I think 65 give or take a year is a pretty good compromise: work long enough to contribute and still live long enough after retirement to get your money's worth. Most people DO start to decline significantly in mental & physical functions in their 60s.

US dollar: who uv thunk the Roman sistercius, in vogue world-wide for 400 yrs would ever decline? BO has significantly decreased US economic health and position as an invincible world power. Sinners Repent! The End is Near!

RE taxes and the rich: but they're STILL not paying their fair share! Right?? If you think this country is not de facto socialist, then you're less than 40 y/o or have a very poor memory.
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Old 07-03-2015, 04:43 PM
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If you don't think there hasn't been any attempt made on the world reserve currency. Then you need to study up on the actual causes for Iraq and Libya.

QGM
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Quietgentleman View Post
If you don't think there hasn't been any attempt made on the world reserve currency. Then you need to study up on the actual causes for Iraq and Libya.

QGM
I like to read that if you have a " credible source." No unknown internet conspiracy theory writers ( kind like CIA blew up the towers ) or those quoting them.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:02 AM
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Here are some pros and con for Iraq.

http://usiraq.procon.org/view.answer...stionID=000911

Gaddafi gold currency plan.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/econom...astated-dollar

Seems strange to me when you start to work against the petro dollar. What you do to your citizens suddenly becomes a reason to invade your country. But all the other nation doing the same or worse to their citizens seem to get a pass.

QGM
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Old 07-04-2015, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
Raising retirement age in US: Great idea! Keep older folks with the better paying jobs working longer so young people have a harder time trying to get a job or to advance. I think 65 give or take a year is a pretty good compromise: work long enough to contribute and still live long enough after retirement to get your money's worth. Most people DO start to decline significantly in mental & physical functions in their 60s.
A number of older people are continuing to work because they dont feel they have the option to retire at this time.
And SS is paying out more then is coming in. More and more Baby Boomers are retiring, but there is not enough coming in to cover those payments. The younger generations are not in the high paying jobs, but lower paying jobs. Many are putting off life milestones due to lack of well paying jobs.



Quote:
RE taxes and the rich: but they're STILL not paying their fair share! Right?? If you think this country is not de facto socialist, then you're less than 40 y/o or have a very poor memory.
Was it not Warren Buffet who commented on how he paid less in taxes than his secretary?

I think it is more like a socialist oligarchy.
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Old 07-04-2015, 02:10 PM
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A number of older people are continuing to work because they dont feel they have the option to retire at this time.
Not to be callous but that is not the govt's or specifically SS' fault is it?

Quote:
And SS is paying out more then is coming in. More and more Baby Boomers are retiring, but there is not enough coming in to cover those payments.
True - and the only solution is either cut benifits or increase deduction or privatize the system. Those are the only choices - no other exist.

Quote:
The younger generations are not in the high paying jobs, but lower paying jobs. Many are putting off life milestones due to lack of well paying jobs.
now a third topic separate from the previous two. I have never seen any statistic proof that the younger generation are in lower paying jobs today as compared to previous generation. In any case doesn't that make sense ? Were you in a lower paying job when you were young. People advance with experience and age- if they want to that is. I see no validity to your premis. . Here is a graph of median income by age group over time and it appears there has been very little change. Yes there has been decline in income in present day dollars but it not to the reason you profess
http://www.advisorperspectives.com/d...e-Brackets.php
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Last edited by MissouriFree; 07-04-2015 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:25 PM
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True - and the only solution is either cut benifits or increase deduction or privatize the system. Those are the only choices - no other exist.
how about eliminating the wage cap--currently 118,500. That would shore up the fund.

JVC
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:54 PM
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how about eliminating the wage cap--currently 118,500. That would shore up the fund.

JVC
I said increase deductions didn't I ?
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