BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Self-Reliance & Preparedness > Self-reliance > Preparedness/Survival Skills/BOBs/Kits/Gear

Preparedness/Survival Skills/BOBs/Kits/Gear If it will help keep you going when TSHTF, talk about it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-01-2015, 06:54 PM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 836
Default Electronic vs Print for reference material?

More and more people are storing things on line and reading material in an electronic format, so just though I would see what the general consensus will/would be for the preferred form in reference material, from the simplest to most complicated questions which might need an answer in a post-apocalyptic world?

What form of reference material are you using?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-01-2015, 07:45 PM
randallhilton's Avatar
randallhilton Male randallhilton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Worth TX
Posts: 1,443
Default

Critical information which might be useful when power isn't available is printed and bound. Example: I have a printed version of Where there is no Doctor (which can also be found as a free download).

I also have it on my computer as well as on our thumb drive backups which also contain scanned copies of important documents, heirloom pictures etc.
__________________

Use less, lose less, weigh the benefits, count the costs.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-01-2015, 08:38 PM
coaltrain's Avatar
coaltrain Male coaltrain is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NW Penna
Posts: 1,722
Default

Printed matter for me for reference material.

And not just for an post-apocalypse event here - we have many power outages (a few times a week anymore) and always have to be ready for a week long event. I do read a lot of novels on my Kindle Paperwhite but always keep ~30 books on the devise itself for times like this - which I can also charge easily from my truck.

I still have lots of regular reading material in hard and soft cover but whenever I buy any book for reference it is always a hard copy.

I firmly believe that an extended power outage and/or internet outage is in our near future without the cause necessarily being apocalyptic. All my preparations are founded on that principal.
__________________
~Stan~
It is what it is
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-02-2015, 02:11 AM
DavidOH's Avatar
DavidOH Male DavidOH is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Central, OH
Posts: 2,439
Thumbs up Both if you can.....

I dug through the archives to dig up my post on this subject.
I think my comments and the links are still good.



I have read several reports on this over the years. As technology changes so does the data storage.

Long-term personal data storage
You can stick a newspaper clipping in a folder and read it in 50 years. Not so with digital content: both the media AND the format can become unreadable.
By Robin Harris for Storage Bits | January 4, 2009 -- 22:50 GMT (14:50 PST) | Topic: Data Centers
http://www.zdnet.com/article/long-te...-data-storage/

Best Reliable Long-term Data Storage Media
how to preserve your digital photos, family videos, music files and documents for your children and grandchildren
[27/12/2009 - art-best_safe_long-term_data_storage.html]
http://www.linuxtech.net/tips+tricks...a_storage.html


Read through the ZD Net link. I agree with the formats recommended for your data.
The more common the file the more likely it will be read by future devices.
Most often the LARGER the better. So if there is data loss it may not be noticeable. ( Such is the case with Photos and Music )
For documents: Text files ( Notepad is still around! ) or pdf. Text and diagrams can both be done in pdf.
For Music or other Audio: MP3 High Quality. For Pictures: PNG ( I prefer Tiff, although it is less common.)

Hard drive storage is much cheaper and CD/DVD are too. I would recommend BOTH. CD/DVD and magnetic media.
If storage space is a concern then SD cards are much cheaper now.

It's hard to beat a 1TB drive for well under $100 now. I've got several NEW 80-120 GB drives laying around.
I've received rebates on CD's so they were almost free. That takes a while to burn each one, but you can separate files easier that way.

One other option (as a back up only) is letting someone else store your data. You can encrypt it before uploading if you choose to.

Best Free Online Backup Sites
Submitted by site.editor | Last update on 21st July, 2015 - 4:31am
http://www.techsupportalert.com/cont...ckup-sites.htm

Right now keeping it on hard drives is my option. Burning to CD/DVDs will be done ......eventually.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-02-2015, 10:25 AM
coaltrain's Avatar
coaltrain Male coaltrain is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NW Penna
Posts: 1,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidOH View Post
Right now keeping it on hard drives is my option. Burning to CD/DVDs will be done ......eventually.
But this requires electricity......
__________________
~Stan~
It is what it is
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-02-2015, 10:58 AM
DavidOH's Avatar
DavidOH Male DavidOH is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Central, OH
Posts: 2,439
Default

I still have print versions of a few dozen reference books.
Printing the thousands of books I have in the digital form would be expensive to say the least.
I can carry all of them on a chip the size of a postage stamp, read them on a device that weighs less than one book and uses less power than one car headlight.

If I have power for the radio, then I have power for the computer/Nook/Kindle.

Last edited by DavidOH; 11-02-2015 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-02-2015, 04:50 PM
JeepHammer Male JeepHammer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 39
Default

Print.
Everything in print...

Wiring diagrams for solar array, the battery bank, the inverters, the house,
All in print,
Not once but twice, once in the building with the battery bank/inverters,
Once in the house in the master files for the house.

Water is the same way,
Pump information, plumbing diagrams, sources and spare parts,
And what I did with the spare parts, all in print twice.

Same with sewage,
Diagrams with landmarks to locate drains, sewage lines, what size pipe was used, where the valves, ect. are all located,
Where and how to clean out the drains when needed in print,
Along with maintenance procedures.

Particularly needed since I have a split drainage system, both 'Gray' water and 'Black' water.

----------------

Now, one thing I found particularly useful,
Vacuum Freezer Bags, See through so you can slip that maintenance card in the front and have a check list when it's time to work on things,
And the warranty card on the back when something goes wrong.

Leave a little extra bag after you seal it up, and you have a handy spot for a hole to hang it, or install it in a binder.

-----------------

What most people DO NOT do is practice what they research.
It's REALLY easy to forget steps, forget details over time,
Having the information PRINTED as a handy reference,
ESPECALLY FOR SOMEONE ELSE IF YOU GET LAID UP,
Is a good idea.

Example,
There are a bunch of ways to purify water, the LEAST efficient is to boil it for 5 minutes.
Cutting wood or finding something to burn that DOESN'T toxify your water, is energy and time efficient.

With a WRITTEN, PRINTED section in your SHTF manual,
Even if you are laid up and can't participate,
Your family, friends, ect. will figure out how to filter/purify water without you...

Important sections should be printed and laminated,
Anything from spraying on clear sealer to 'Average' paper,
To self sealing lamination,
To sealing up the most important parts in 'Freezer' bags you can read through, but won't easily get punctured (like 'Zip Lock' baggies get easily punctured)

*IF*...
You just use flash drives, common paper and printer,
Ask yourself if you have a flood or have to get out and wade through high water, what will that printed paper/flash drive do?...

Flash drives fail REGULARLY, one bent pin, one of the tiny connections to the chip fail, and you are left flat footed on everything.
The smallest bit of corrosion, the smallest electrically conductive piece of debris on the contacts, and you are sucking wind...

Not saying it's not just fine for a backup,
But it doesn't pass for sealed up printed material.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-02-2015, 05:10 PM
Wildapple's Avatar
Wildapple Female Wildapple is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunny FL
Posts: 212
Default

My preference would be print due to chance of electrical outage.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-02-2015, 07:39 PM
coaltrain's Avatar
coaltrain Male coaltrain is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NW Penna
Posts: 1,722
Default

DavidOh - I agree with your points on digital documents but I have one major hangup with that which I mentioned is having electricity to use the device to read the digital documents. I guess I need to get off my duff and setup a small solar/battery setup of some kind to at least power my Kindle e-reader. I depend an aweful lot on my Kindle for reading to keep me occupied since most days I am chair bound.

But then the next problem in an extended outage which is not being able to acess Amazon to buy more books even if I have a way to charge my Kindle battery (which lasts a couple weeks on a charge). I am ahead by about 30 books on my Kindle which would only last a couple months. After that I am out of reading material except for my Louis L'Amour collection and a small assortment of paperbacks. When I am done reading a book on my Kindle I delete it from the device so I have room for more books - not sure what the storage capacity of the Kindle Paperwhite is.

I haven't purchased a hard copy of a book for years (except for reference books as mentioned). The cost of hard copy books that I read are easily 3+ times the cost of the digital versions. And while I am not into reading books a second or third time, even those books I have purchased from Amazon are in their "cloud" which I wouldn't be able to access either. I guess I could download them all to my PC (a couple hundred) but then I still wouldn't be able to read them without electricity.

I wish I could find a source of a box or two of assorted books for a couple bucks just to have on hand for such a situation.
__________________
~Stan~
It is what it is
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-03-2015, 01:55 AM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 836
Default

We certainly find the online searching faster and contains more up to the minute information.

Printed matter can become dated fairly quickly, but the real nuts and bolts information does not really change that much, so we will stay with the printed sources and reference material.

There is no need for electricity to read a book, unless it is dark. Then we have lanterns, candles & batteries if there is no electricity for illumination.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-03-2015, 10:18 AM
Setanta Male Setanta is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 710
Default

A little bit of both, though phisical books are immune to power outages and hardware problems, they also take up a lot of room. so i have to limit myself to only 1 bookcase (6' tall and 3' wide) and when i get new books i have to cull some old ones (usually i cull stuff with duplicate information, or books i have no need to read again like novels). some information can only be stored and accesed electronically or is only practical in an e-format, and they take up no more space than a thumb drive, however they do require a computer to access. i keep duplicate drives and computers for that info and can power them with several sources (off grid with pure solar means having to get creative in winter when it comes to generating power).

if i was to loose the computer it would be a minor inconvinience and i would just use my books
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-05-2016, 12:12 PM
RochBear Male RochBear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 56
Default depends

It would depend on what type of apocalypse happens.
If you are talking a conventional attack, and the power lines are cut (blown up) then I have a computer and CDs for the materials. Since the search functions are MUCH faster, and CDs/DVDs take less space.

This of course assumes you have a backup source for power (solar, wind, hydro, etc.) So I do have solar and wind, and a bike attached to a car alternator. I have one circuit which is totally off grid.

However, if the apocalypse happens due to an EMP (solar or nuke), then all electronics will be wiped out (that aren't in a faraday cage). So you would need backups of your electronics to be stored that way. (actually solar EMP probably would not wipe out things which were powered off or unplugged from the grid).

The problem with paper is it wears out, is a fire hazard. and the physical space it takes to store it.

So what have I done:
I have a lot of things on paper. (such as recipes, which I use all the time - and I take with me, since I do the cooking)
I have a backup source of electricity - Solar, wind, and stationary bike attached to alternator.
I have backup sources of heat, and cooking (which use wood)
I have backup chain saws, parts, oils and fuel - so I can get firewood.
I have backup computers in Faraday cages
I have backup inverters in faraday cages (for the solar array)
I have enough ammo to protect my investment.

But the best thing I have is in my head. I not only have the information in print, but I actually use all this information on a yearly basis, to keep it fresh. As someone said, "If you live and practice a self sustainable life, when the apocalypse hits, things won't change much".

Other members of our "clan", also do the same. One thing we know, it will take a good number of people to live in a post apocalyptic society. There is too much to do, for one person, or one family to do it all.

Good luck

Bear
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:30 AM
DavidOH's Avatar
DavidOH Male DavidOH is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Central, OH
Posts: 2,439
Default

Well said Bear.

If the automobile runs there is a source of electricity, in addition to the others.
Multiple back ups.
Have the books on hand. Print what you can. CDs too ( not affected by EMP) and the Secure Data cards.

If you have nothing to access the information stored, maybe someone else does ... someone that may need the information too !
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-06-2016, 11:11 AM
coaltrain's Avatar
coaltrain Male coaltrain is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NW Penna
Posts: 1,722
Default

I still pretty much live my life regarding computers and electronic devices as luxuries and make sure I am not dependent on them. Sure, I like using my PC and iPad for internet forums and gathering information but it ends there. The only thing I have stored on my PC and back-up drive are photos which aren't critical to me.

When the power goes out here you would hardly notice it at our house. We have kept our ways of doing things since living off the grid many years ago.

I can just imagine the mayhem involved with most people today (especially the younger generation) if/when the power goes out and/or electronic devices won't work. It seems like more and more devices/apps come out everyday that people are using like controlling their door locks and thermostats with "smart" phones. I don't understand why people are doing this but more and more are their lives are becoming dependent on that little electronic device.
__________________
~Stan~
It is what it is
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-08-2016, 12:35 AM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 17,407
Default

the really important stuff is always printed ... Along withdraw interesting stuff:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/mLibrary/...y_index-1.aspP

http://toolemera.com/Books%20%26%20Booklets/books.html


I spend way to much on printer catridges and paper.p
__________________
work like you don't need the money- love like you never been hurt and dance like no one is watching !!

Last edited by MissouriFree; 03-08-2016 at 12:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-08-2016, 04:42 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,505
Default

I have a lot of reference books, spread between the house and the developing homestead. Can't beat them.

But, I also have a complimentary amount of stuff on my kindle.

I love the kindle. Easy to recharge (have plenty of solar doo dads to do that).

But, I will never be without basic print reference books.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:07 PM
chrisser Male chrisser is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cleveland OH / Palestine WV
Posts: 1,330
Default

If you purchase commercially printed materials, you're probably OK.

If you print them yourself, keep in mind that inkjets are seldom waterproof.

Laser printed materials generally are more permanent, but I've seen serious reactions over time with the vinyl used in binders - it will cause the fused toner to release.

This is especially true with those clear vinyl/plastic sheet protectors. I've seen them render the toner almost transparent and also they'll stick to the toner and remove it from the paper.

I'm not a chemist and haven't researched the reaction, but it's what I've observed over time, being in IT for 25 plus years.
__________________
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

Marxism: The ultimate illusory fantasy.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.