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  #21  
Old 01-10-2016, 05:31 PM
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I'm siding with Sethwyo on this one.

Several years ago, we were moving from one state to another. During the move we were robbed. We had evidence that the robbers were in our old state so we called there to report the crime. The police didn't care. They gave us a report number for insurance purposes and said that was the end of it. They weren't going to bother to investigate.

We figured if we were going to make an insurance claim we better unpack everything to get a full list of all that was taken. During the unpacking, hubby realized not all our firearms were there. We called back to the police to tell them some of our firearms may have been stolen, too. The problem was, we hadn't inventoried all our firearms so we weren't exactly sure how to identify them.

The police officer hung up and within 20 minutes called back to give ME a complete list of every firearm we owned, including serial number and the address where we lived when we acquired the item. I was SHOCKED how much they knew about us and how easily they could compile the information based only on our names and previous address. They knew about rifles and shotguns that were given to us by relatives. It was creepy!

As for misspellings, I don't care. At first, I thought Sethwyo was just using his smartphone to access the board and, thus, auto-correct was getting in the way. But I also think about my child who has dyslexia. She can't spell worth beans. She will always be awful at it and she is smarter than anyone on this board!

Add to that how no one believed me when I posted about how the store did a background check on us just for buying ammo and I know how easily some personal experiences get discounted by those who only THINK they know better.

I AM very concerned about these new policies because most of the states do not have a registration requirement. I agree that the ultimate goal is to have a national registry and then eventually, a national confiscation. In the meantime, the official word is, in our case, when we moved again the moving company refused to transport firearms (they really do!) so we gave them all away and took nothing with us. We don't own a single firearm. Not one!
Your anecdote actually confirms what I said when I stated the police can only access the information when investigating a specific crime.

The dealer didn't have to show them anything without a warrant, and only did so to help you

There are no Federal laws requiring background checks for ammo, and I am not aware of any state laws to that effect. If they exist they should be easy to find.

There is no database with all that information.

You can believe some random person on the internet, or you can simply search for the laws yourself. I'd suggest the latter

http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-...n-of-firearms/
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There is no comprehensive national system of gun registration
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They knew about rifles and shotguns that were given to us by relatives.
Unless you live in a state with universal background checks, and require all sales to go through a dealer, that's simply not possible.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2016, 11:44 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
Your anecdote actually confirms what I said when I stated the police can only access the information when investigating a specific crime.

The dealer didn't have to show them anything without a warrant, and only did so to help you

*** There is no way the police could have gotten back to us that quickly if they had contacted all those various dealers / stores. The information was already in some database somewhere. ***

There are no Federal laws requiring background checks for ammo, and I am not aware of any state laws to that effect. If they exist they should be easy to find.

*** You're right. There is no background check LAW - federal or state. We live in a non-registration state. Yet, we went through a background check to buy ammo anyway.

There is no database with all that information.

*** You don't know that. As for the relatives ... yet they knew. Gee, I wonder how.
I'm not one for believing random people on the internet either - especially ones who try to discount my personal experience.
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2016, 01:02 AM
sethwyo sethwyo is offline
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Smile been there ~ experienced that

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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
I'm not one for believing random people on the internet either - especially ones who try to discount my personal experience.
when you have been through something, you nowe it, & you nowe what you nowe.

{when i say ¨nowe¨ i dont try to make a ¨K¨ sound for ¨know¨ so i dont try to spell it that way either, & neither did thomas jefferson, i dont do as everyone else does, simply because they are told ´this is the way we have always done it ´ }

did you watch the Ǵuns in america on cnn with the president i started this about ?

it reminded me of the social health care speech he made in 2009, six years later we see what it has done, although some still insist nothing has happened.

in six years from now we will see what all the new fed gun agents, anti gun laws, and data base on gun owners will have done. unless it is stopped.

i think that, the old term, ¨those who do not learn from historys mistakes will be doomed to repeat those mistakes¨ will be horribly true.

there are those who do not want to do right, but only to be right,

then there are the good guys
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2016, 02:46 AM
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I'm not one for believing random people on the internet either - especially ones who try to discount my personal experience.
It's irrelevant if you believe what I said.
It's still true, and I gave links to the statutes.

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*** You don't know that. As for the relatives ... yet they knew. Gee, I wonder how.
There is no way anyone could have known about guns given to you as a gift unless the transfer went through an FFL. It's simply not possible.

I do know there is no database with information about private transfers, which is why your story just isn't credible

Feel free to explain how it was possible, and who recorded the transfers, or whether they were registered under state laws.

I'd love to hear the details, because I also don't believe what everyone on the internet says.

Last edited by Bearfootfarm; 01-11-2016 at 02:52 AM.
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:48 PM
ScrubbieLady ScrubbieLady is offline
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
Having a typical FFL allows the ATF to come once a year to make a scheduled inspection.

If you have a Class III license they can inspect the NFA firearms whenever they want, but not unannounced

All this information is available through a simple online search.

https://www.atf.gov/file/4796/download
The rest of your post is the following:

""Quote:
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), pursuant to the
Gun Control Act (GCA) and the Federal firearms regulations, is responsible for licensing persons engaging in a firearms business.

With certain exceptions, the GCA allows ATF to conduct one warrantless, annual compliance inspection of a federal firearms licensee (FFL). The purpose of the inspection program is to educate the licensee about regulatory responsibilities and to evaluate the level of compliance.

Compliance inspections also serve to protect the public in that they promote voluntary internal controls to prevent and detect diversion of firearms from lawful commerce to the illegal market. ""

It says a ONE warrantless, annual compliance inspection. That quote, at least, does NOT say that the inspection must be scheduled and does NOT say that they cannot do it another time also.

But I will go back to your link and see if I can find something I may have missed.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2016, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ScrubbieLady View Post
The rest of your post is the following:

""Quote:
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), pursuant to the
Gun Control Act (GCA) and the Federal firearms regulations, is responsible for licensing persons engaging in a firearms business.

With certain exceptions, the GCA allows ATF to conduct one warrantless, annual compliance inspection of a federal firearms licensee (FFL). The purpose of the inspection program is to educate the licensee about regulatory responsibilities and to evaluate the level of compliance.

Compliance inspections also serve to protect the public in that they promote voluntary internal controls to prevent and detect diversion of firearms from lawful commerce to the illegal market. ""

It says a ONE warrantless, annual compliance inspection. That quote, at least, does NOT say that the inspection must be scheduled and does NOT say that they cannot do it another time also.

But I will go back to your link and see if I can find something I may have missed.
It says what is "allowed" so if it doesn't list other warrantless inspections, they are not allowed.

The information is kept at the dealer's location, and most isn't even on computers at all, so there is no "database" of gunowners

It also has to be during "normal business hours" since they can't make you open a closed store to conduct the inspection

Any business can be searched at any time with a warrant, so that is not exclusive to FFL's

Anyone who told you they could search "any time at their discretion" is mistaken

I'm still waiting for a logical explanation as to how they could know the details of a private transfer
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2016, 07:17 PM
sethwyo sethwyo is offline
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https://westernrifleshooters.files.w...of9usaa0mq.jpg
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:49 PM
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Silly pictures won't change the fact that there are no Federal gun registration requirments.

They just show you have nothing credible to add
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2016, 12:18 PM
ScrubbieLady ScrubbieLady is offline
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
It says what is "allowed" so if it doesn't list other warrantless inspections, they are not allowed.

The information is kept at the dealer's location, and most isn't even on computers at all, so there is no "database" of gunowners

It also has to be during "normal business hours" since they can't make you open a closed store to conduct the inspection

Any business can be searched at any time with a warrant, so that is not exclusive to FFL's

Anyone who told you they could search "any time at their discretion" is mistaken

I'm still waiting for a logical explanation as to how they could know the details of a private transfer
You keep adding things to your link.

All I said is that your quote does NOT say the inspection has to be scheduled. Your quote does NOT say that it has to be during business hours. The inspection I am talking about was conducted AFTER business hours although they may have thought that there were more lax "business hours" since the gun vault was part of his home.

I am not talking about a private transfer unless it was done though a FFL but that would mean it wouldn't be a private transfer.

It allows one inspection. There is nothing that says they cannot conduct more than one, (see "under certain conditions" in your quote).

As far as a database, not I don't think they necessarily have one YET. But, the fact is that the information is there where it can be accessed without a court order by the ATF.
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ScrubbieLady View Post
You keep adding things to your link.

All I said is that your quote does NOT say the inspection has to be scheduled. Your quote does NOT say that it has to be during business hours. The inspection I am talking about was conducted AFTER business hours although they may have thought that there were more lax "business hours" since the gun vault was part of his home.

I am not talking about a private transfer unless it was done though a FFL but that would mean it wouldn't be a private transfer.

It allows one inspection. There is nothing that says they cannot conduct more than one, (see "under certain conditions" in your quote).

As far as a database, not I don't think they necessarily have one YET. But, the fact is that the information is there where it can be accessed without a court order by the ATF.
It doesn't say it because it's understood they have to do it during the business hours listed on the license application.. They ask for that information before the license is even issued.

All this information is available on the ATF sites

The "certain conditions" is if they have evidence of regulation violations being committed. Those inspections are to determine if the dealer is complying with the rules, and not to get information on who purchased guns.

It was another poster who claimed the police was able to tell her about private transfers between family members, but I really see no way that could happen, and I've heard no explanations as to how it would even be possible
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2016, 10:56 PM
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As far as a database, not I don't think they necessarily have one YET. But, the fact is that the information is there where it can be accessed without a court order by the ATF.
hy miss scrubbie
yes you are right,
weather the feds have a data base or not, isnt in question, what i was talking about, what the president said, was as he said in 2009 when he announced the social healthcare plan, federal laws illegaly forced against us, that have bankrupted insurance companys, risen rates too high for some of us to afford, & are fining us money we further cannot afford, which can lead to criminal charges & us loosing our home, you dont pay what the irs wants, they put you in prison & seize your property. & now the president is , as was expected in his last year, pushing a registration ĺaw´ that will , by his own words, make buying, selling, transporting, & Owning Guns illegal, through out the interview the term ´register´ is used over & over.

the requirements for owning a gun under the new law will be expensive & difficult, & will in the end depend on the feds deciding if you will be allowed to or not.

look at what the social health care has done, it did not take long, look at what is coming next.

doing your own research & seeking the truth on your own, without others telling you what ´is´ or ´is not´ is the way to go. considering peoples character is a part of that.

it really dosnt matter if there is or is not an official statment or law somewhere calling the recording of gun sales ¨Registration¨ through ffl´s. i never said there was. but recording gun sales through fflś is what it is. & that is what it is. it is a register. official OR NOT, it is a recorded registration.

weather you can find an official statment for it does not matter. for example i can but a one dollar note book and register how many cars drive by in a day, its not official and you will never find any government law or statment for it, but it is what it is, a recorded register.

also do not expect the federal agents to follow a law, saying that they cant do it because its not legal, is like arguing that there are no murders committed, Because there is a law against murder.

there is a law against a register of guns and gun owners, so it cannot exist ! ! !
there is no law for that ! ! ! we all nowe the feds always do right ! ! !
also NO ONE was murdered in the last 200 years because there is a law against it ! ! !

consider the character of people who support the federal government, do you think these people will tell the truth ? or lie ?
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  #32  
Old 01-13-2016, 07:51 PM
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the requirements for owning a gun under the new law will be expensive & difficult, & will in the end depend on the feds deciding if you will be allowed to or not.
There is no "new law".
It was all talk.
There have been no "EO's" written concerning guns or "registration"

Quote:
consider the character of people who support the federal government, do you think these people will tell the truth ? or lie ?
The only "lies" so far have been about registration that doesn't exist
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2016, 03:03 PM
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As you may know, I work at Walmart and sell firearms there, not handguns. In Florida there is no need for fingerprints to purchase a firearm and no need for a background check to purchase ammo. And we do follow the Fed and State laws. (Go down South of my area and there are some counties that have mandatory waiting periods for all firearms.) But EVERYONE gets a background check to purchase and that comes back as either YES, NO or Wait.

Now also remember a phrase that has already been used here, basically it is "Those who do not remember history are forced to relive it". And while I am older, and my parents and their friends were much older than me, I remember the stories of Hitler's rise to power and his forcing registration of firearms, and Lenin's and Mao's and Castro's forcing registration and later confiscating all the firearms from the "people" for their own good. And all of them ended up very controlled populations unwanting or unable to resist massive incursions into their lives. I have also seen and heard for myself how the gun registrations in Australia and Great Britain were for their own good. And now these countries have massive violent crime because no law abiding citizen can resist the "crooks".

I'll end my pet peeve now and save the rest for another time.
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2016, 03:08 PM
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And one other thing, look at the folks controlling Congress and POTUS's office and you will find MANY have criminal backgrounds, and I mean BOTH political parties. So don't you think they are going to set them laws to help themselves and their buddies?
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2016, 10:34 PM
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hy Iraude ~ Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and your info
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