BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Water

Water Drinking water, wells, ponds, saving, purifying, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-26-2016, 08:10 PM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 18,427
Default

I noted Insitu previously and believe it to be best solution. We used in on old sewer and water lines on base with tremendous success. But in housing area our water lines were made of transite - a form of asbestos. When these. lines broke they were extremely hard to repair as the old material was brittle and would not support clamps . They would also not suppuort the pressures of the in-situ process.

I would think that Insitu would be fine for mains but from what I understand most of the laterals to the houses are lead pipes also. In that case the city would have to get permission from homeowner and owner would have to pay. All not likely given the economic situation of prions living there.

Tough situation. All way around.

thanks for the links. I had understood the pipes were lead not cast iron . I still suspect the problem stems from the treAtment plant .
__________________
I find out of long experience that I admire all nations and hate all governments- Steinbeck
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-27-2016, 08:28 AM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,522
Default

It would seem the journalists and other opportunists are trying to capitalize on the sensationalism of displaying Flint's iron-fouled, reddish water and equating that with risk of lead poisoning.

An interesting aside: WI became known as The Badger State because the immigrant lead miners used to burrow caves, like badgers, into the banks of the Mississippi & Wisconsin Rivers to serve as their temporary homes near the mines.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-30-2016, 11:04 AM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 18,427
Default

It seems the state was providing drinking watervtovstate workers in Flint as long ago as last Jan- months ahead of the regular citizens.
__________________
I find out of long experience that I admire all nations and hate all governments- Steinbeck
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-30-2016, 12:15 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,982
Default

Yes... My well water here on my WI rock pile is "a battle ship in every glass" as the saying goes.. But I've lived with way worse...

Heard part of a headline, and read a little of a note that said several other cities have had the same or similar water issues.. Part of the blame was put on assigned administrators for these cities.. Implying they are making these changes solely to satisfy a monthly balance sheet and not knowing or paying attention on follow through.. For instance.. Things like a different source of water may take different treatment than the old source..

Again.. A part of the puzzle that leads to the perfect storm of crisis..

My 2 cents..
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-30-2016, 02:32 PM
Bones Bones is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,588
Default

So how long would it to take to clear up if they switched back to the old Detroit water source?
__________________
" I void warranties"
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-30-2016, 03:46 PM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 18,427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
So how long would it to take to clear up if they switched back to the old Detroit water source?
From what I understand - a long time. Best in mind the river water is probably not the problem. The issue is the lack of proper treatment. The plant operators were not doing thier job and the state water people and fed EPA let it go.


An interesting side bar I heard( unverified) is that the state appoint financial manage that was at the very least instrumental in this is now the state appointed financial manage of the Detroit school system that has hove 1/2 B$ in debt. If true I wonder where his next stop is.
__________________
I find out of long experience that I admire all nations and hate all governments- Steinbeck

Last edited by MissouriFree; 01-30-2016 at 03:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-30-2016, 03:52 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissouriFree View Post
... I wonder where his next stop is.
Illinois ??
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-30-2016, 05:27 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,982
Default

I wonder where his next stop is.
==
Sounds like the kind of person who will show up after the election and inauguration with a cushy federal job....

(sarcasm is what I do)
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-31-2016, 10:23 AM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East central Mississippi
Posts: 243
Default

#Yankeeproblems

I don't understand how no one knew about the problem because water companies are required to test their water and publish the results annually. Around here in The South, those published reports can be quite startling with all the lead, arsenic, and other contaminants in the water yet no one does a thing about it.

Personally, we drink A LOT of bottled water.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-31-2016, 03:59 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,982
Default

I don't understand how no one knew about the problem because water companies are required to test their water and publish the results
>>> Yes.. It is obvious EPA dropped the ball.. And the head person with that quit in order to ditch his/her part in that... All down that food chain it seems that ball was dropped/side stepped.... For sake of the monthly balance sheet ??? Who knows ??
----
Personally, we drink A LOT of bottled water.
>>> I've read articles at times where bottled water can be nothing more than tap water from somewhere else... Nothing special, maybe naturally better than your local water... For a price...

Again, my water may not be adequate for some, but I've had much worse..

Good luck..
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-31-2016, 04:20 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post

. Around here in The South, those published reports can be quite startling with all the lead, arsenic, and other contaminants in the water yet no one does a thing about it.

.
And yet we're living longer, healthier lives, so, how bad can it be for us?

The only actual problems attributable to drinking water is more kidney stones in areas with high Ca levels, ie- very hard water, and, of course, certain water borne infections when the system breaks down.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-31-2016, 05:01 PM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 18,427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
#Yankeeproblems

I don't understand how no one knew about the problem because water companies are required to test their water and publish the results annually. Around here in The South, those published reports can be quite startling with all the lead, arsenic, and other contaminants in the water yet no one does a thing about it.

Personally, we drink A LOT of bottled water.
Yes they are required to do that . They are also require to submit regular reports to regulators. Not sure how offend it is in MI, but I do know from experience that water reports from the treatment plant are submitted to the state ( at leastin NJ where I was chief engineer on a base) cause I had to sign them before they went out .

The tap sampling has strict protocols. Taps must be run for certain amount of time to make sure sample is from supply outside for example . I have read where water dept did not do sampling right.

Just my opinion but problem was at the. Water treatment plant . Operators not doing thier job.

After that reports were either falsified or went out correctly and ignored at higher levels. In this case everyone wants to blame fed EPA but thier only fault was not taking action ( at best that would have been a NOV- notice of violation - along with threat of daily fines ) after they knew about it. They were not the ones that caused the problem .

Problem started at local level . Higher than that fault was not making locals do thier job.
__________________
I find out of long experience that I admire all nations and hate all governments- Steinbeck

Last edited by MissouriFree; 02-01-2016 at 12:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-02-2016, 07:47 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissouriFree View Post
Just my opinion but problem was at the. Water treatment plant . Operators not doing thier job.

After that reports were either falsified or went out correctly and ignored at higher levels. In this case everyone wants to blame fed EPA but thier only fault was not taking action ( at best that would have been a NOV- notice of violation - along with threat of daily fines ) after they knew about it. They were not the ones that caused the problem .

Problem started at local level . Higher than that fault was not making locals do thier job.
Opinion to Opinion here.

I don't think it would have been related to the Operators themselves, or the Water Engineer in charge.

I do think that reports went out correctly, but things got muddy (excuse the pun) after that. I think the link was broken somewhere between City, County, then State departments.

I did some researching and reading relating to frequency of testing, both within the municipal lines\tanks and in private homes. Frequency of testing at the municipal level looked to be very high per month.

Being exposed to a lot of technical people, quite a few of them in the water related industry as well, I find it hard to believe that operators would have their results falsified by qualified technical management, or that technical management would smother bad test results.

When it comes to Business\Government management, I can see where the data could be manipulated\ignored.

Of course - I don't rule out the possibility of having Tech people either be incompetent or performing CYA - but I think the chances are slim-low.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-02-2016, 01:30 PM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 18,427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kachad View Post
Opinion to Opinion here.

I don't think it would have been related to the Operators themselves, or the Water Engineer in charge.

I do think that reports went out correctly, but things got muddy (excuse the pun) after that. I think the link was broken somewhere between City, County, then State departments.

I did some researching and reading relating to frequency of testing, both within the municipal lines\tanks and in private homes. Frequency of testing at the municipal level looked to be very high per month.

Being exposed to a lot of technical people, quite a few of them in the water related industry as well, I find it hard to believe that operators would have their results falsified by qualified technical management, or that technical management would smother bad test results.

When it comes to Business\Government management, I can see where the data could be manipulated\ignored.

Of course - I don't rule out the possibility of having Tech people either be incompetent or performing CYA - but I think the chances are slim-low.
I kinda thought of that direction also but could not rationalize an operator sending out report knowing the ph was not appropriate . Guess we'll find out sooner or later .

But you're right the plant operators ( both sewer and water) have been some of the most dedicated and Independant I had working for me. They were licensed and never hesitated to tell me straight up the issues.
__________________
I find out of long experience that I admire all nations and hate all governments- Steinbeck
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-02-2016, 10:13 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissouriFree View Post
I kinda thought of that direction also but could not rationalize an operator sending out report knowing the ph was not appropriate . Guess we'll find out sooner or later .

But you're right the plant operators ( both sewer and water) have been some of the most dedicated and Independant I had working for me. They were licensed and never hesitated to tell me straight up the issues.
If I understand it correctly, your connection (not directly with Flint, but with the water thing) was through submitting water samples from your base, for proper treatment verification?

In the business world, I assisted with that type of procedure, so somewhat similar, if I understand your history correctly.

I can understand where inspectors\operators for municipal can be rigid with results from non-municipal contributors to their water treatment\discharge.

That rigidity standard may be different from their internal ones, but I've fired QC operators at industrial plants for falsifying QC reports - usually only takes one to put the whole system in line.

But - the water treatment guys that I've worked with seem to hold themselves to a higher standard.

So, yeah, I would still place bets on .gov at some level - since I trust them a lot less than techie guys.

It's been interesting digging into this though, been learning a lot, and since I want my business to get deeper in with water infrastructure - it's more than just internet fun curious research stuff.

So thanks to everyone for posting links and their observations on this issue!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-31-2016, 03:22 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,982
Default Definitive answer ???

Definitive answer ???
--
http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articl...ggles-continue
---
OK... I've seen several more headlines about this or that fact, detail, what ever from the Flint issue.. Admittedly I have read very few of these lately..

This one is labeled "mystery solved"...
Again.. My BS meter is pegging on the side of there being a perfect storm of people side stepping what ever they feel they don't want spilling over on to there little territory that produces there pay check.. So it is deniable as "some one else at fault"....

We'll see where the cow chip falls... Or as the world of today goes, maybe not..

Facts, details, thoughts ??
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-31-2016, 05:25 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Default

I guess I don't understand why PO4 levels were not checked if it is truly routine practice. Other folks on this forum know far more about this than I do, but testing PO4 in water is not an expensive thing to do, so I don't know why it wasn't done.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:54 AM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,982
Default

I see a headline and picture of the Governor (?) drinking a glass of water..
Didn't read the article as I suspected it was a media opportunity..
Honest stand up resolution to the problem ?? Political grand stand ??

Facts, details..??
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-21-2016, 05:00 AM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Default

I think the governor of Wisconsin is going to drink Flint water for a week or a month...filtered, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-21-2016, 04:15 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,982
Default

Saw a headline where 3 people have been charged over this issue..
Didn't read details..

WI governor drinking in support of Flint, or MI governor...
Politicians..... Sigh..
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 03:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.