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  #1  
Old 02-19-2016, 05:08 AM
samie samie is offline
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Default Homesteading and health care

Just wondering how you can homestead and stay healthy without health insurance

i have it but I can already see it bankrupting me

Last edited by samie; 02-20-2016 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 02-19-2016, 07:13 AM
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Auto insurance doesn't pay for oil changes, brake jobs or car washes, just the big unusual expenses of an accident. That's why it's relatively inexpensive.

Health insurance should be the same, but we've gotten spoiled. Many even think having expensive, all inclusive health insurance is not just a privilege, but a right and entitlement. I'm also amazed at how many people will pay $4800 a year just so they'll be covered for one yearly doctor visit costing $100. ????

Now we're stuck with this silly political ploy of ACA which has raised the cost of health care to the sublime level. Now you pay more per month for your "insurance" while still paying for most of your routine care out of your own pocket anyways. They like to brag that 18M poor folk now are added to the healthcare welfare roles, but ignore the fact that now 20M can't afford their old insurance yet don't qualify for the govt aid. More working poor.

If you're healthy enough to homestead, you're probably healthy enough to take the chance of not buying insurance. How lucky do you feel?
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Old 02-19-2016, 05:32 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
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Originally Posted by doc View Post
Health insurance should be the same, but we've gotten spoiled. Many even think having expensive, all inclusive health insurance is not just a privilege, but a right and entitlement. I'm also amazed at how many people will pay $4800 a year just so they'll be covered for one yearly doctor visit costing $100. ????

Now we're stuck with this silly political ploy of ACA which has raised the cost of health care to the sublime level. Now you pay more per month for your "insurance" while still paying for most of your routine care out of your own pocket anyways. They like to brag that 18M poor folk now are added to the healthcare welfare roles, but ignore the fact that now 20M can't afford their old insurance yet don't qualify for the govt aid. More working poor.

If you're healthy enough to homestead, you're probably healthy enough to take the chance of not buying insurance. How lucky do you feel?

Yeah, and I understand a lot of folks who fudged their incomes to get subsidies from the government are now having to pay the government back for those subsidies now that the W-2s and the 1099s are in. What a surprise! Some of those folks are having to shell out $5,000 or $10,000 to repay the subsidies. Most of the 18M who have been added to the heath insurance roles are a result of Medicaid Expansion, which is another trap set for the states by the Feds; the Feds pick up most of the bill for the first 3 years, the states have to pick up increasing shares of the inflated Medicaid roles. Medicaid expansion was put into the ACA to inflate the numbers of those covered, and Medicare was robbed to make the cast of the ACA appear artificially low.

Doc, when I started working in hospitals in 1965 (before Medicare), people could visit the ER and pay out of pocket. Of course, things were much less sophisticated then, but most of the illnesses and injuries were treated just fine.
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:01 AM
samie samie is offline
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Originally Posted by doc View Post
Auto insurance doesn't pay for oil changes, brake jobs or car washes, just the big unusual expenses of an accident. That's why it's relatively inexpensive.

Health insurance should be the same, but we've gotten spoiledI'm also amazed at how many people will pay $4800 a year just so they'll be covered for one yearly doctor visit costing $100. ????

Now we're stuck with this silly political ploy of ACA which has raised the cost of health care to the sublime level. Now you pay more per month for your "insurance" while still paying for most of your routine care out of your own pocket anyways. They like to brag that 18M poor folk now are added to the healthcare welfare roles, but ignore the fact that now 20M can't afford their old insurance yet don't qualify for the govt aid. More working poor.

How lucky do you feel?
THIS is what I was trying to say, thank you

I am 52 and not exactly in a place where I can ditch insurance and am only thinking about homesteading PT

Last edited by samie; 02-20-2016 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:16 PM
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Doc, when I started working in hospitals in 1965 (before Medicare), people could visit the ER and pay out of pocket. Of course, things were much less sophisticated then, but most of the illnesses and injuries were treated just fine.
Doctors generally weren't rich before Medicare (that also coincided temporally with more universal granting of private insurance via unions). But, when someone else is paying the bill, demand goes up and price follows by natural law.

Since 1965, coronary bypass surgery was developed and that markedly raised life expectancy. Other new technologies that followed haven't contributed much beyond that. While a CT adds $1000 to your bill, it doesn't add a day to your life. We always made the diagnosis just fine without it, but now we're sure of what we'll find when we open you up. No more "exploratory surgery."
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Old 02-20-2016, 08:39 PM
samie samie is offline
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Sorry I should have posted this on the Health board
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:19 AM
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MissouriFree MissouriFree is offline
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No it should gave been on the political board In extended access based on replies you got. Lots Of bs in those replies .
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:50 PM
Setanta Male Setanta is offline
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i have mixed feelings on healthcare. but as was mentioned, if your healthy enough to homestead your probably healthy enough not to need healthcare.

i didn't apply for obamacare, in the police state of new york i was auto enrolled for low income coverage last year against my will. when i did my taxes last month i only made $1500 in taxable income last year, and only made $3500 the year before (not even Al Capone could escape the tax man so its best to give ceasar his due and get on with the rest of the year).

I actually find it funny since i tried to get insurance a few years earlier and was refused unless i would apply for a dozen other welfare programs too. eligability was based on financial need, to apply i needed to show my electric bills, heating bills, cable bills, etc, none exist so they voided the application and told me to apply to public housing, heap, obamaphones, etc so i could qualify, i told them to save it for poor people who needed it. i had to self doctor since (including stitching the tattered flesh of a minor chainsaw injury in 2013). then when obamacare came out i was told i had to get insurance or pay a penalty. i refused to apply for insurance again since i didn't like being told to do it and started setting aside money to pay the penalties i expected to pay. told them i would take insurance when they forced the policy papers into my cold dead hands. then they auto enrolled me in it and forced me to have free coverage when i told them i didn't want it.

so i went from looking for coverage and being refused, got used to not having it, then was forced to have it when i didn't want it. so i think its all funny in a cosmic and ironic way.

Last edited by Setanta; 02-22-2016 at 05:56 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-23-2016, 02:07 PM
grumpa Male grumpa is offline
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Smaie

I think you'll find that when you get out and about and work on your homestead that you will feel better both physically and mentally. The outdoors, fresh air and physical activity does wonders.
Physically I have lots of problems to deal with but I find that during the time of year that the weather is not to extreme and I can work around the farm that I feel much better, eat better and sleep better. In the winter when I can't get out I suffer from stiffness and aches and pains. Personally I think you will find homesteading hard work but very therapeutic and healthy. Good luck on your quest! Is this kind of what you were asking?
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2016, 03:46 PM
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backlash Male backlash is offline
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Doctors and hospitals practice preventive medicine.
They do all those expensive test to prevent the lawyers from suing them.
I am one of the fortunate ones, I am fully covered through the VA.
No cost to me.
My wife on the other hand is going to need medical coverage because she has a lot of medical issues and we can't afford to pay for her care out of pocket.
I am trying to get everything arranged so I can retire in 2 months and her insurance is going to be our biggest expense.
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2016, 07:15 PM
samie samie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpa View Post
Smaie

I think you'll find that when you get out and about and work on your homestead that you will feel better both physically and mentally. Good luck on your quest! Is this kind of what you were asking?
Sort of Thank you very good advice! I should take it more often
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2016, 07:18 PM
samie samie is offline
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Originally Posted by backlash View Post
Doctors and hospitals practice preventive medicine.
They do all those expensive test to prevent the lawyers from suing them.
...her insurance is going to be our biggest expense.
I completely agree with this and have thought the same thing, that's why if the preventative finds something they don't have to make a commitment to treating what is found. cya

i.e. they will pay for a preventative colonoscopy 100% but if polyps are found they won't pay for future ones until your (usually high) deductible is met

I don't know about VA benefits but am surprised your wife can't be included with yours, that is ridiculous!
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2016, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by samie View Post
I completely agree with this and have thought the same thing, that's why if the preventative finds something they don't have to make a commitment to treating what is found. cya

i.e. they will pay for a preventative colonoscopy 100% but if polyps are found they won't pay for future ones until your (usually high) deductible is met

I don't know about VA benefits but am surprised your wife can't be included with yours, that is ridiculous!
If I was rated at 100% disabled she could get coverage but I'm not 100%.
With VA math I doubt I can ever get to 100%.
Va math 50+30+10=70
My wife had a colonoscopy and they found polyps.
She has met her deductible for the year so she should have been covered.
I got a bill from the pathology lab for $1200.
Seems the insurance company classified the lab work as tier 2 coverage so she had to meet that deductible.
I went to the CEO and he had the hospital cover the charge. If I hadn't questioned the bill I would have been stuck.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:16 PM
samie samie is offline
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Originally Posted by backlash View Post
If I was rated at 100% disabled she could get coverage but I'm not 100%.
With VA math I doubt I can ever get to 100%.
Va math 50+30+10=70
My wife had a colonoscopy and they found polyps.
She has met her deductible for the year so she should have been covered.
I got a bill from the pathology lab for $1200.
Seems the insurance company classified the lab work as tier 2 coverage so she had to meet that deductible.
I went to the CEO and he had the hospital cover the charge. If I hadn't questioned the bill I would have been stuck.
such complete BS!

I have something that needs diagnostic treatment which will end up costing a TON because our deductible is so damn high! I wish I could go without healthcare but it isn't practical at my age and with this "condition" ttytt I feel fine but I guess I am being foolish to skip getting it looked at

maybe if we had less income/property it would be less expensive

and we are in NO WAY well off.

Last edited by samie; 02-23-2016 at 10:26 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2016, 11:02 PM
RochBear Male RochBear is offline
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Default Homesteading and health

One thing about homesteading, you don't pick up many colds/flu bugs. That's because those bugs are passed from person to person. If you (and your family) stay on the home place, and don't get exposed to others, you won't pick up the bugs from them.

Also if you work hard physically, your body tends to not get sick. (ie being in good health, produces good health).

That's all true for colds/flu. Unfortunately, it's probably not true for the big things like Cancer. But if you work out (good cardo exercise) (That can be from things like bailing hay, cutting wood, splitting wood....) it should give you a healthy heart. Clean air, clean living, and healthy food, should reduce your risk for cancer too.

Too bad Obama care mandates that you have the "goto the Dr. if you have a cold" insurance plan. I wish they would have a "catastrophic" care only plan, but alas, they no longer exist.

Bear
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Old 03-24-2016, 04:49 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
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Too bad Obama care mandates that you have the "goto the Dr. if you have a cold" insurance plan. I wish they would have a "catastrophic" care only plan, but alas, they no longer exist.

Bear
I, too, wish that, instead of Obamacare, we had a catastrophic plan. It seems totally unfair (I know, life isn't fair) that someone's life can be ruined because they are dealt a bad hand. I have a friend right now who is in the hospital and has been for months because she was hit by a semi who jackknifed into her trying to avoid a car that pulled out in front of him on an icy highway. Neither the truck driver or my friend were at fault (the driver who caused it drove away and hasn't been caught as far as I know), but they will bear the physical and financial costs for the remainder of their lives--or declare bankruptcy leaving the doctors and hospitals to bear the costs. I have other acquaintances who have been buried financially by a cancer diagnosis. I think if the catastrophic costs of healthcare were born by a "disaster policy", regular healthcare insurance would be affordable for everyone who wants it.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:21 AM
Selena Selena is offline
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Doctors generally weren't rich before Medicare (that also coincided temporally with more universal granting of private insurance via unions). But, when someone else is paying the bill, demand goes up and price follows by natural law.

Since 1965, coronary bypass surgery was developed and that markedly raised life expectancy. Other new technologies that followed haven't contributed much beyond that. While a CT adds $1000 to your bill, it doesn't add a day to your life. We always made the diagnosis just fine without it, but now we're sure of what we'll find when we open you up. No more "exploratory surgery."
Doctors weren't rich before ERISA and health care change to for-profit. If you want to place blame, place it where it belongs. Self-funded health insurance plans bear the majority blame for the health care problems that became front and center in the 1980s. And the very companies that insisted on self-funded plans as trade-off for participating in social security are the very companies that squeal the loudest about health care costs for current and/or retirees.

I can also add that some members of society refuse to butt out of the health care choices of others. If a terminally ill person opts for no treatment and wishes to depart this earth before the ravages and pain of said disease hits them full force, s/he should be able to do so. Our country spends substantial dollars in the last few months of life.
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Last edited by Selena; 10-25-2016 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:25 AM
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It's ironic that liberals, who generally want to micromanage our lives with regulations, also tend to favor freedom of choice in dying, while conservatives want the govt out of our lives, except when it comes to our bedrooms. The problem with legalizing assisted suicide is in the details: who determines what conditions will be covered and when? The poor guy who is suffering with the excruciating pain of end-stage pancreatic cancer and is not expected to live more than a month is a no-brainer. But what about the 13 y/o junior hi valley girl who is sooo unhappy because she doesn't have blue eyes? I'm being facetious with that example, but you get the picture.

I still maintain that physicians are prevented from doing the right thing, which will vary on a case by case basis by govt rules and the courts. Six times more money is doled out by medicare on the last year of life than on other yrs, and 40% of that is spent on the last month of life-- often, if not usually, when the outcome is obvious. If the lawyers weren't giving pts & their families unreasonable expectations, much of that money could be saved, and the suffering of prolonging a death avoided.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99304153281506
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:51 PM
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Jjr Male Jjr is offline
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My wife had a colonoscopy and they found polyps.
She has met her deductible for the year so she should have been covered.
I got a bill from the pathology lab for $1200.
Seems the insurance company classified the lab work as tier 2 coverage so she had to meet that deductible.
I went to the CEO and he had the hospital cover the charge. If I hadn't questioned the bill I would have been stuck.[/QUOTE]

They can do pretty much whatever they want to do. The wife had some major surgery earlier this year. In the aftermath one of the insurance EOB's received had a $40,000+ bill denied because an out of network entity was used.

The wife phoned the surgeons office, and discussed the matter with their billing office. The lady she spoke with asked if she had received a bill from the vendor. "No, but since the insurance had denied payment on the invoice, she certainly expected to receive a bill," was the response. The wife was informed to contact the billing office immediately, if she received a bill from the vendor. The lady continued the doctor knew the vendor and preferred working with them, even though they were an out of network affiliate, but they would take care of that vendor themselves. So far no bill from the vendor, which is pushing six months now since the EOB was received.

But the vendor did invoice the insurance company in an effort to run it through with all the other bills.

If the hospitals and doctors accepted payments from patients like they do the insurance companies, that would reduce costs 75 - 80% or more.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:19 AM
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When docs used to practice in a solo or small partnership settings, things were more personal and it was & common for a pt to negotiate payments. But the burden of paperwork that came with Obummercare forced everyone into large groups, usually run by the hospital corporations-- now faceless and dehumanized.

I practiced solo on the southside of Chicago. It used to be that a practice could be sold for a price about equal to its yearly gross. I was unable to sell my busy practice when I retired last summer: ALL docs in this area sold their practices to the big corp at prices about 1/10th their previous value. There were NO takers for a solo practice.

To give you an idea of the bureaucratic paperwork burden: Before ACA, we'd renew the ink cartridge in our fax machine about 4x per yr. Since ACA went into effect: every two weeks. All for useless but required paper work that nobody ever reads.
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