BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser

  #1  
Old 07-16-2016, 03:16 AM
Karanell Karanell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 14
Default Canning BBQ sauce question

I found a delicious bbq sauce recipe. Turns out the recipe made more than I thought so I decided to can it. I got 7 half pints out of it then water bathed it for 30 minutes. When it was done I realized that even though the water was boiling, some spots weren't really because it wasn't a big rolling boil, so to be on the safe side I turned it up some and boiled it 20 minutes more. Mistake?

THEN, I realized that this recipe (that wasn't from a canning book) contained 2 tbls of butter, along with the typical honey, molasses, red wine vinegar, etc ingredients. Should this have been pressure canned? Should I have just left well enough alone and stuck the whole thing in the fridge because that's where they are right now until I hear different!

It really is a yummy recipe, but I'll toss it to be on the safe side.

I'm really not a newbie I just always follow the Ball book or something similar.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-17-2016, 02:43 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,565
Default

Best thing to do is to insure you have a solid reference source for canning, check the PH of the product you are canning, and compare that value to what your source suggests ( > 4.6 or < 4.6 )

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/general/ens...ned_foods.html

I can BBQ sauces here and there, and most of my recipes use some type of meat broth, so I am always pressure canning.


If there is any doubt, pressure can.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-17-2016, 04:36 PM
Karanell Karanell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 14
Default

The jars have been in the fridge since they cooled, so they weren't out more than an hour or two. They are sealed. Can I go back and pressure can them? Will that completely overcook the sauce, or being sauce does it really matter? Do I need to put new lids on?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-17-2016, 10:58 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,565
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karanell View Post
The jars have been in the fridge since they cooled, so they weren't out more than an hour or two. They are sealed. Can I go back and pressure can them? Will that completely overcook the sauce, or being sauce does it really matter? Do I need to put new lids on?

Thanks!
I would like to hear other Members opinion on this, but this is what I would do, if you've made a decision to pressure can them:

Empty all jars out, re-heat sauce, clean and re-sterilize jars and rings, use new sterilized lids, then process in the pressure canner.

I wouldn't worry about re-cooking the sauce, y'might want to add a little additional more of the base liquid that you used, like tomato sauce.

Or .... pick up a PH meter from Amazon, make some bbq, crack one open, test PH .. enjoy the meal, then y'might not have to pressure can. If you plan on canning a lot of stuff in the future, would be a good investment of $25.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-18-2016, 02:35 AM
Karanell Karanell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 14
Default

How about this option: leave it all in the fridge, eat as needed, and when I run out I will pressure can in the future. There's no problem that way is there? I mean, as long as it stays cold and sealed there's no danger of botulism, right? I think the recipe was originally meant to be used that way anyway. Canning it wouldn't have changed anything, right?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-18-2016, 03:53 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,565
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karanell View Post
How about this option: leave it all in the fridge, eat as needed, and when I run out I will pressure can in the future. There's no problem that way is there? I mean, as long as it stays cold and sealed there's no danger of botulism, right? I think the recipe was originally meant to be used that way anyway. Canning it wouldn't have changed anything, right?
Take a look at this link, specifically at the response from Douglas Baldwin. I checked out various other links based on the above scenario, and they all seem to agree.

https://www.chefsteps.com/forum/posts/botulism-2

I wasn't really sure about growth rates and the resulting toxin at typical reefer temps. Typical fridge temps may vary, and in his reply, he addresses that.

If toxin is produced in the fridge, from the reply:

"As for destroying the toxin that was present before cooking, traditional techniques that use fairly high temperature work great: 79 C (174 F) for 20 minutes or 85 C (185 F) for 5 minutes will inactivate the toxins. But reheating to 5560 C (130140 F) is unlikely to sufficiently inactivate any toxins. The only other risk is if the food is heated really slowly more than six hours until the core reaches 55 C (130 F) so C. botulinum is able to grow significantly (3 generations) while cooking."

I didn't see any references as to length of time at various fridge temps, so not sure how long storage in a fridge might produce a problem. But, thorough cooking per the quote above should be a safeguard.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-18-2016, 11:43 AM
Karanell Karanell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 14
Default

Wow! Ok, I'll redo it! Wow! I've always boiled or cooked my canned food before eating, but have they always recommended to do that to store bought cans too? Did I somehow miss the memo?? What about that green bean salad with red beans and garbanzo beans my grandma used to make?

That was kind of sobering to read. I'm always very cautious and careful to follow the recipes to the letter, but this is the first time I kind of winged it so it didn't set well with me anyway. I know people do it all the time, but I never have because of the safety factor. Thank you for helping me out.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-18-2016, 07:22 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Default

I certainly would just redo it to be safe. We see a lot of botulism up here--probably more that anywhere else in the U.S. due to the way the natives treat and store their foods. Traditional methods allowed the various meats and other foods to rot in aerobic environments--not at all tasty to most western tastes--but when jars and plastic/zip-loc bags were introduced, everyone thought they were being "cleaner" by storing things in plastic bags instead of things like seal skins. The jars and plastic bags created the anaerobic environment needed for the toxin to form. Many of these foods were traditionally eaten uncooked. Even though the ground is generally quite cold in most parts of mainland Alaska, the toxin still formed, but I never heard of anyone suffering from botulism here from refrigerated foods, but I suppose it is possible. We always recommend that everyone heat the food to boiling (212 F./100 C.)before consuming in any case. Commercially canned food is QC'd at levels not possible in a home kitchen so is generally safe, but it never hurts to heat stuff to boiling, especially high-protein foods such as meat, fish and beans. (Cooked meat is what is used to grow C. botulinum in a lab.)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2016, 08:40 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,565
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doninalaska View Post
I certainly would just redo it to be safe. We see a lot of botulism up here--probably more that anywhere else in the U.S. due to the way the natives treat and store their foods. Traditional methods allowed the various meats and other foods to rot in aerobic environments--not at all tasty to most western tastes--but when jars and plastic/zip-loc bags were introduced, everyone thought they were being "cleaner" by storing things in plastic bags instead of things like seal skins. The jars and plastic bags created the anaerobic environment needed for the toxin to form. Many of these foods were traditionally eaten uncooked. Even though the ground is generally quite cold in most parts of mainland Alaska, the toxin still formed, but I never heard of anyone suffering from botulism here from refrigerated foods, but I suppose it is possible. We always recommend that everyone heat the food to boiling (212 F./100 C.)before consuming in any case. Commercially canned food is QC'd at levels not possible in a home kitchen so is generally safe, but it never hurts to heat stuff to boiling, especially high-protein foods such as meat, fish and beans. (Cooked meat is what is used to grow C. botulinum in a lab.)
Hey Man - really appreciate that timeline about botulism in your area. Extremely interesting, thank you posting that up.

Agreed with the commercially canned food statement too. According to the CDC in 2014 there were 161 confirmed cases of botulism in the US. Didn't see a split between commercial and private though. With modern processing versus outdated processing, I'm sure those numbers have decreased significantly - but couldn't easily pull up say a 50 year timeframe. Think the CDC started tracking in 1974.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.