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Health Any kind of health issue, alternative medicines, herbal and folk remedies, etc.

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  #1  
Old 05-09-2017, 01:04 PM
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Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
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Default Deer Ticks....

A local article about it is the start of deer tick season again. Big thing the article stressed was a new disease deer ticks seem to be starting to carry.

Can't find the article again now, but it is said in humans to be a virus acting thing. Symptoms sound very similar to Lyme disease, but treatment is very different than with Lyme..

Anyone with medical experience that can add details ??
====
The usual things carried by deer ticks..
Lyme Disease: Spread by the black-legged or deer tick, this disease is most common in the Northeast. Symptoms include a circular rash at the site of the tick bite, tiredness and neurological and facial muscular problems.
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever: Common to the Southeast, symptoms of the disease include sudden onset of fever, headache and muscle pain, followed by development of rash. The disease can be difficult to diagnose in the early stages, and without prompt and appropriate treatment it can be fatal.
Ehrlichiosis: Common to the Southwest, this disease is spread by the lone star tick and is carried by dogs, cattle, sheep, goats, and horses. Symptoms include a fever and swollen lymph nodes.
Babesiosis: This disease is carried by deer ticks and is found most often in the Northeast and upper Midwest. Symptoms include a nonproductive cough, headache and increasing malaise.
Human Granulocytic Anaplasmosis: HGA is increasingly recognized as an important and frequent cause of fever after tick bite in the upper Midwest, New England, parts of the mid-Atlantic states and northern California, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Other symptoms include headache and malaise.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:40 PM
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Powassan Disease http://www.wptv.com/news/national/po...or-this-summer

The "target lesion" rash shown in the picture in the article is classic for primary Lyme disease.

Lyme is caused by a spirochete carried by the deer tick. Syphilis is also caused by a spirochete, and like syphilis, Lyme has a primary lesion, followed by a period of no symptoms, then the development of a non-specific rash (secondary Lyme) that can take many forms, then a quiet period again for weeks to months to years, then tertiary stage with damage to heart valves &/or neurological problems. Easily treated with simple antibiotics when caught early.

Powassan apparently causes an encephalitis: headaches, aversion to bright lights, generalized muscle aches, variable degree of impairment of mental abilities, possibly seizures. These are all nonspecific symptoms of any encephalitis: East & west equine encephalitis, West Nile virus, Herpes zoster, etc etc. No specific treatments.

Isn't it ironic? About the only place you can't get Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever is in the Rockies.

I always treated anybody who reported a tick bite as if I knew that the pt was infected with Lyme. The antibiotics are cheap and easy and the consequences of missing the diagnosis could be severe. Just treat and don't worry about the lab test results (which are nonspecific anyways.)
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:11 PM
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Powassan Disease........
===
Yes.. That was the term in the article I saw, but could not dredge up.

If joint aches and pain is an issue in all these diseases, I've had one or all for quite a number of years now..

Must be that, couldn't be just getting old ???

Thanks for the info..
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:54 PM
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I always treated anybody who reported a tick bite as if I knew that the pt was infected with Lyme. The antibiotics are cheap and easy and the consequences of missing the diagnosis could be severe. Just treat and don't worry about the lab test results (which are nonspecific anyways.)
That was a most admirable method of handling those situations, doc. Americans would have much better health care, if all doctors managed their patients with the same respect & method of treatment.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:09 PM
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Thanks for the support, Jjr, but the lawyers don't let you get away with that sort of practical thinking. God forbid I should have done that for a patient and after taking the amoxicillin he dropped dead of anaphylactic shock, having an unknown pcn allergy. I'd be crucified in court.

At least if I had done the blood tests I'd have had a chance of proving to 12 people too dumb to get out of jury duty that I knew what I was doing.

Clinical knowledge is no longer adequate.That's why your young Dr. just stares at his computer screen, typing without looking at you. As long as the form is filled out properly, he must be practicing good medicine as far as the court is concerned.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:13 PM
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I understand the nature of the beast, doc. If all the lawyers were lined up at the river front and starting at the head of the line, the 1st head was cut off, then skip a head, cut two heads off, skip a head, cut three heads off, skip a head and cut four heads off, skip a head and cut five heads off, then repeat the same sequence to the end of the line of lawyers, we would have a lot less trivial law suits.

I hate tractor and lawn mower seat, pto & any other kind of safety switches, all created compliments of lawyers who didn't have the integrity to throw the idiots out of their office who did not have enough sense to operate the equipment safely in the first place.

Just one complaints against lawyers and their indifference to the suffering and needless but countless costs they have cause the entire world because of one clients stupidity. And I have plenty more.

As with good doctors, and all other professions, we do need a few good lawyers, but with lawyers, if will take a powerful lot of looking to find a few good ones.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:40 PM
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I hate tractor and lawn mower seat, pto & any other kind of safety switches, all created compliments of lawyers who didn't have the integrity to throw the idiots out of their office who did not have enough sense to operate the equipment safely in the first place.
Off the original topic, but who would have ever thought that there would be a black market for toilets and light bulbs (environment-based) and gas cans and propane bottles (safety-based). 50 years ago, no one would have thought that the U.S. government would deliberately put a thriving industry out of business (incandescent light bulbs)? Maybe more Docs should run for Congress and start regulating the lawyers--how they practice, how much they get reimbursed, and declare that it is a Constitutional right (which it is in criminal cases) in civil cases as well. I guess what you really need is a few MD JD folks appointed as judges to help redefine the legal profession.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:31 PM
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So.... Back to ticks... I haven't seen any ticks here in the bush yet. But have seen the occasional mosquito...

There are a number of ways to remove one once it has "bit" you.. You always remove the tick the way it went in. If you break off the head, you will have a problem with a sore spot that takes time to heal and the body to expel the foreign body lodged there. Most times this is all happening in a hard to reach, sensitive area. like near the waste band or other easily irritated area.

I have heard if you cover the tick in petroleum jelly, or Vicks Vapo Rub it will back out. Problem is location and I hate vapo rub with a passion..

Any favorite tested procedures ???
---
I have a couple young doctors in my family.. Like said they are pretty much "by the book" in treatment. What ever the drug companies say when they wrote the text books.. My 5 cents worth of experience..
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:42 PM
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The history of the anti-incandescent bulb movement casts a very interesting insight into the whole Green Movement thing:

Jeffrey Imelt, chairman of the board of GE, big contributor to the Dems and confident & advisor to Comrade Obama (or is it Sotero?) was instrumental in getting Congress to outlaw incandescents. GE was then "forced" to import & market Chinese manufactured florescents & LEDs, closing all their own US factories and laying off thousands of American (highly paid union) workers.

After the factories had been closed down here, Congress then softened the laws and incandescents, now all cheaply foreign made, were once again allowed to be sold here.

GE profits up. Environment unchanged. Mission accomplished, Comrades.
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Horton View Post
So.... Back to ticks... I haven't seen any ticks here in the bush yet. But have seen the occasional mosquito...

There are a number of ways to remove one once it has "bit" you.. You always remove the tick the way it went in. If you break off the head, you will have a problem with a sore spot that takes time to heal and the body to expel the foreign body lodged there. Most times this is all happening in a hard to reach, sensitive area. like near the waste band or other easily irritated area.

I have heard if you cover the tick in petroleum jelly, or Vicks Vapo Rub it will back out. Problem is location and I hate vapo rub with a passion..

Any favorite tested procedures ???
---
I have a couple young doctors in my family.. Like said they are pretty much "by the book" in treatment. What ever the drug companies say when they wrote the text books.. My 5 cents worth of experience..
We don't have ticks here, but when I lived where there were many, prevention was the key. We pulled our socks over the outside of our trousers when travelling in tick country, and sprayed deet around the bottom of our pants. We always checked each other when coming in from outdoors (remember the Brad Paisley song!) and were very observant and aware of the hazard. Petrolatum (in both Vicks and Vaseline) would make it difficult for the ticks to "breathe" through the spiracles on their bodies. I have also heard of using alcohol or acetone as an irritant. The old way was to touch them with the tip of a lit cigarette, but since so few folks smoke anymore, that method is not commonly used. As Doc said, be aware of the diseases carried by the buggers!
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:53 AM
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WI DNR has found that way more than half of ticks submitted for survey were carrying Lyme spirochete-- if you've been bit, consider yourself infected.

Getting the tick off you is kinda like the acute attention Hopalong Cassidy used to pay to "getting the bullet out"-- as if you were ok once it was gone. It's the damage done by the bullet as it breaks bones, tears tendons and ruptures arteries on it's way in that's the real concern. Leaving the tick on you does have a local reaction, but not in itself all that problematic.

I've tried the old hot tip of a burned match trick. Not too effective. Simplest way to remove tick is to use a tweezers (if I said "forceps," I'd have to charge you more) and grab the thing between your skin and its nose. They come off easily.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:46 AM
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Doc
Before I retired from fedgov I worked in New Jersey and deer tick where lymes were near epidemic there. We were told at that time they the tick needed to stay attached 24 hours to transfer bacterium to you . Is that true .?
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:15 PM
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I lost my stopwatch, so I have no idea.

I'm guessin' the only way they could make such a statement is by someone in the NJ Dept of Pub Health collecting the probably unreliable observations and irregular reports of private MDs and noting that among pts seeking treatment right after a tick bite, few developed positive antibodies for Lyme agent , while those who waited longer were more likely to h develop Lyme Disease.

That, of course, skews the data because many pts don't seek med attention until they've already got symptoms.

One of the major factors in determining whether or not an exposure to some germ actually causes illness has to do with the size of the inoccullum- the number of germs that actually enter the victim. Our defenses may kill off a small attack quickly, but a large invasion may overwhelm the victim: Bay of Pigs vs The Normandy Invasion. So a longer exposure to the tick may in fact be more important than a quick nibble.

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Old 05-27-2017, 12:51 PM
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At least if I had done the blood tests I'd have had a chance of proving to 12 people too dumb to get out of jury duty that I knew what I was doing.


I about split a gut laughing at this. Your a hoot, good thing you have a sense of humor about these things but I believe you are so right. Unfortunately where I live going to the Doc each time I got a bit would be impractical. Someone in the house has one almost daily. I think the majority of the bits are harmless but I do have a lot of health issues so who knows maybe infected in the past with something.
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:00 PM
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..... who knows maybe infected in the past with something.
That's one of the arguments in favor of dishing out antibiotics "unscientifically": the current infection may not need to be treated, but the pt may be harboring some silent, old infection (like Lyme or syphilis - a huge problem 100yrs ago) that unknowingly gets treated.
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:20 PM
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So...... Lyme and/or some of these other ailments can/do lie dormant or suppressed in some people before they flourish into a condition that causes issues and can be identified ?? Then hopefully successfully treated ??
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:42 PM
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Default lymes

There is a site, www.ilades.org If you go there you will find a great deal of info on the little critters.

The spirochete can go dormant for years. My wife was bitten nearly 20yrs before it started to affect here. This was all caused by insufficient treatment in the beginning. I strongly suggest that if you have been bitten by a tick and the bullseye rash appeared or has appeared don't settle for a short treatment regiment of the disease. What I saw my wife go through because of this insect was a real eye opener for me. I nearly lost her due to the fact she could not take the daily pain she was experiencing.

It is my understanding that there is a lab that can take a tissue sample and dye it to see the spirochete. Don't quote me on this but we continued to follow this issue now for some years.

By the way most of the work on limes and its variants is being done in Canada. God bless the folks that have done this work.

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Old 07-27-2017, 05:00 PM
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Default New tick in Canada

News headline that says a tick from the southern US has been found in eastern Canada.

The "Lone Star" tick seems to be a usual size, shape, color tick with the exception of a small white dot on its back.

Problem is it carries some kind of germ/chemical that will make some people dangerously allergic to RED MEAT...
Can't find that article again at this moment.

That would be bad..
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:30 PM
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Lone Star tick bite & meat allergy:
http://www.whsv.com/content/news/A-b...437150913.html

Even squirrel meat!
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:47 PM
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Thanks for that link, doc. My step mother in law has developed an allergy to red meat that the doctors have not been able to diagnose. This is something they should probably look into. I'll pass this on.

I'm assuming that if a Lone Star tick has been found in Canada, they could also have found their way to NJ. Definitely something to look into!
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