BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Animals > Wild/Feral/Nuisance/Control

Wild/Feral/Nuisance/Control Please...no posts about Barney, Kermit, Miss Piggie, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:50 AM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 837
Default Local Rabies Surge

Rabies seems to surface periodically, and as of Thursday the 16th animal in a 20 - 25 mile radius of where we live has been identified and eliminated. One individual was bitten and taken the "Rabies Treatment."

Hopefully this will remain a localized incident and can be contained before it can engulf a larger region of the state.

Just a word of caution to everyone be careful when out and about, and especially cautious should any wild animals be encountered acting abnormal, especial nocturnal animals out roaming about in the day time.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2017, 12:33 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,524
Default

Good advice. All mammals can get rabies, and all bats, skunks and raccoons should be considered rabid unless you can catch the bugger and prove it's not.

Years ago, a friend's son tried to rescue a baby raccoon stranded in the bottom of a dumpster. It bit him pretty good. He tossed it out and it ran off into the woods. We had to give the kid the series of three rabies shots. As you probably know, when giving a shot, you stick the needle into the muscle and then pull back on the plunger to see if you accidentally entered a vein.(hard enough to hit when you're actually trying to draw blood, so what are the chances?) Well, luckily, I did follow he routine and did in fact get it into the vein. Tragedy was averted by not injecting and starting over.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2017, 05:36 PM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 837
Default

The oldest daughter is a Veterinarian, but when she was in her senior year of Pre-Vet, she came in late for supper and the cafeteria had already closed, so she went to the Student Center and got a burger, fries & drink. It was a pleasant cool spring evening so she went outside to one of the open air tables to consume her meal.

She had about half eaten her burger, when a squirrel jump up on the table and went for her burger. In the melee which followed the squirrel bit her on the hand and ran off with the meat patty.

When the animal control folks showed up, they wanted to know if she could identify the squirrel. Being like her mother & grand-mother with quick wit & reply, she said, "Sure he's the one with yellow lips, because I like & use mustard on my burgers!"

Naturally under the circumstances, she was given the prescribed rabies regimen and our insurance paid for the course of treatment. Actually it was a financial blessing for us, since that following fall she would have been required to take the rabies vaccinations as a precaution when she entered Vet School and we would have had to pay for the expense, since it was education & not medically required.

Personally, I have always felt the squirrel was accustomed to being tossed french fries, pieces of buns, or other morsels of food by students and when the daughter did not pay due homage, it took matters into its own hands and insisted upon proper tribute.

<**> <**> <**> <**> <**> <**> <**>
And that reminds me of the following:

A good friends dog got hit by a car back in the early 80's and he said the 'ol dog wasn't worth a dime, but it was the kids pet, so he put the dog in the back of his sedan and took the hurt pooch to our local Veterinarian, who at the time was a fairly recent graduate.

At the Vets Clinic, the doctor reached in to pick up the dog, (the friend said his dog had never bitten anyone before in its life, but it was hurting) and the dog bit the Vet.

My friend told the Veterinarian, "Mike, that dog has not been vaccinated for rabies." The reply was, "That's OK, I have!"

And for anyone interested, the canine made a complete recovery.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2017, 05:57 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,977
Default

Rabies is endemic in the Bush here, especially carried by foxes. They have outbreaks among the wildlife periodically. They used to have teams of guys (mostly) on four-wheelers who rode around and shot anything that didn't run away from them during the outbreaks (including domestic dogs and cats) but I don't think they do that anymore. All the animal control folks here get vaccinated for rabies, as do the State lab folks who handle the submitted carcasses and brains.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:50 PM
jvcstone jvcstone is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 1,962
Default

My vet informed me that there was a local outbreak in cats--particularly barn cats that normally don't get shots. Family noticed a kitten acting weird, and it had scratched their young daughter. Took the cat into the vet where they watched it till it died and sent the head off to A&M--young girl had to take the shots. I understand it is not such an ordeal as it was 30 years or so ago.

JVC
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-11-2017, 05:13 PM
CountryMom22 Female CountryMom22 is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 598
Default

Every few years the rabies rears its ugly head. These "outbreaks" are mother nature's way of controlling the population. Be wary and vaccinate your animals.

We dispatched a coon and groundhog this week that were in the garden, but took proper precautions when disposing of them. Be careful!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:33 PM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 837
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvcstone View Post
I understand it is not such an ordeal as it was 30 years or so ago.

JVC
That is true. I can remember a lady who was bitten by a fox, during an outbreak of Rabies known to include foxes, in the early 60's who had to take thirty-three shots (one each day for thirty consecutive days, then three boosters IIRC at 7, 14 & 21 days past the last daily injection. It has been so long, the boosters may have been one week, then two weeks & then three weeks later.

The daughter received seven injections I think. (If she had been at home rather than away at school I would probably remember more exactly since hers were taken in the mid-90's.) The daughter received a couple of shots then days began being skipped between injections with the last injection a month following the previous injection. She may have only received six injections, however regardless of the exact number, they were a quarter or fifth of the number the lady bitten in the 60's and both were receiving precautionary prophylaxis treatments because neither animal involved was captured or killed.

In recent years there has been two, possibly three confirmed cases of individuals surviving Rabies without receiving the standard treatments. Then on the other hand there have been a couple of cases where registered organ donors died from an undiagnosed case of Rabies and at least four recipients of the deceased individuals organs contracted Rabies themselves and died before doctors realized what was happening.

I was hoping a vaccination could be developed using serum from those individuals that survived the Rabies Virus without benefit of the standard Rabies Prophylaxis. If, pursued, if apparently did not happen.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:54 PM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 837
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvcstone View Post
My vet informed me that there was a local outbreak in cats--particularly barn cats that normally don't get shots.

JVC
That is correct, also. Dogs were the family pet most susceptible of contracting Rabies in the past. Leash laws probably provided the greatest reason for that transition, but being kept behind fences and owners maintaining up to date vaccinations on their animals were also involved.

Fences don't necessarily keep cats at home, and although the family's pet cat may be vaccinated regularly, in the rural areas the barn mousers may not be routinely vaccinated.

I have seen the numbers, in this state, in the recent past when the number of cats diagnosed with Rabies exceeded that of dogs. At the time I was kept aware of those numbers, once the trend reversed itself, so that the number of cat Rabies cases exceeded that of dogs it has continued unabated in its new form each consecutive year, with the exception of any years where there were no confirmed cases of Rabies in either cats or dogs.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:14 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjr View Post

My friend told the Veterinarian, "Mike, that dog has not been vaccinated for rabies." The reply was, "That's OK, I have!"

.
Funny, but true.

This is also the best and only argument needed against all those meddling, Goode-Two-Shoes Liberals who insist all kids must be vaccinated before entering school: as long as their kids are vaccinated, they're safe. They needn't worry about anyone else.

There hasn't been a case of rabies in a dog in Cook County (Chicago) for 120 yrs, yet they're still required.

In regards developing a serum from those rabies survivors: it would involve the old fashioned Gamma Globulin method of treating infection, used before the antibiotic era. It would only provide temporary immunity.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:10 PM
jvcstone jvcstone is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 1,962
Default

Don't know the truth of this, but a vet once told me that the rabies vaccine gives multiple year protection, and most likely lifetime--similar to polio, or some of the other vaccines we human pets receive as pups. He said that the government requirements for the yearly shot was the result of lobby efforts by both the producers and some veterinary organizations.--ie about money, not really public safety.

I remember when one could buy the rabies vaccine at the local feed store, and my current vet will give me (sell me) the shots for my LGD,s rather than drag those beasts into town, although I suspect that is pretty irregular. Nice old fashioned vet clinic--no computer in the joint, no appointment needed--and very good with the animals.

JVC
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:59 PM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 837
Default

I don't remember when the rabies vaccine disappeared from Farm & Ranch Suppliers shelves here, but I purchased and vaccinated our dogs in the late 70's & early 80's. The outlet where I purchased the vaccine was a locally owned retailer and when they closed up shop, I have not found the vaccine for sale since then. (Probably about 1984 was the last time I was able to purchase the Rabies vaccine.)

Information I have been exposed to, may not be any better than the typical grapevine information, but it indicated protection for 3 - 5 years.

But most things are 1,000% absolutely ALL about the money!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:15 AM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,977
Default

Here in the endemic areas, the state requires vaccinations for all pets on an annual basis. In the areas where rabies is not endemic, it is recommended every 3 years so I don't think that, for Alaska at least, the primary motivation is monetary. Also, some (but not all) states require rabies vaccine to be given by a vet or by a "trained lay vaccinator" under the supervision of a vet. Other vaccines can be given by the owners since the diseases covered are not generally transmissible to humans.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:16 AM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,524
Default

I just talked about this two weeks ago with our vet: no scientific info exists about how long the rabies vaccine lasts. Antibodies are no longer found in the serum after a couple yrs, but there's no safe way to measure "the anamnestic response"--that's the ability of the immune system to perk up and produce large amounts of antibody quickly when re-infection occurs.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:59 AM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,977
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
I just talked about this two weeks ago with our vet: no scientific info exists about how long the rabies vaccine lasts. Antibodies are no longer found in the serum after a couple yrs, but there's no safe way to measure "the anamnestic response"--that's the ability of the immune system to perk up and produce large amounts of antibody quickly when re-infection occurs.

I suspect it depends on the individual animal. I worked with several vaccine studies. I was part of the Hep B vaccine study. I would go through the series and lose the detectable titer after less than two years. After going through the series three times to learn that the titer fell below detectable level shortly, it was discovered that one booster would recover the titer as well as the entire series, so it was decided that my anamnestic response would protect me from Hep B exposure. Most other individuals in the study kept their titers well after four years or more. I have theories on why that is, but those theories will remain untested and irrelevant. I never worked with animal vaccines, but I suspect that the response is similar.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-01-2017, 12:47 PM
blackpowderbill Male blackpowderbill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Madison County, NE Georgia
Posts: 399
Wink $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doninalaska View Post
Here in the endemic areas, the state requires vaccinations for all pets on an annual basis. In the areas where rabies is not endemic, it is recommended every 3 years so I don't think that, for Alaska at least, the primary motivation is monetary. Also, some (but not all) states require rabies vaccine to be given by a vet or by a "trained lay vaccinator" under the supervision of a vet. Other vaccines can be given by the owners since the diseases covered are not generally transmissible to humans.
I agree with the monetary side of this. I see ads in the vet clinics for heart worm and a map of locations where it is. I ask, so did the dogs actually have heart worm or is that a guess? They purchase worms in little jars to show people.

The flea killer drops is another hung money maker and dog killer.

Now a local bill board went from getting a your kid vaccinated, pregnant you're not alone to ZIKA VIRUS IS A KILLER.

It's like a cycle alright and IMO if the $ is down in one area the advertizing part of the business starts putting out YOU NEED THIS CAUSE ads.

I still say to this day my 13 yr old beagle contracted blood cancer from the flea drops I gave here that year. I have never given her drops in the past.

None of the other beagles in her family line ever had cancer. All of them lived 16 to 20 years.

I look at it like this. Since the less pesticides people are so hyped up on less or none is better for food, crops and lawns. Then why are they so willing to use this stuff on people and their pets?
__________________
Having once been downwind of a plate of biscuits and squirrel gravy does not make you Daniel Boone. KD Williams
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-01-2017, 05:57 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,977
Default

The systemic "flea killer drops" are different from the vaccines and certainly can be a problem. I am very glad that we don't have to worry much about fleas and ticks here--especially when we had 30 dogs here at one time. When I lived in Georgia, fleas were a constant problem, and our pets were almost always carting them into the house from outside where they were endemic. I don't know if I would have succumbed to using them or not, as they had not been used when we lived there. We did use flea collars and frequent flea shampoos. I have since learned that parasitic nematodes can be used to control fleas outside, and I am sure that I would have used those if I had known of them at that time. We also used diatomaceous earth as a control, but it was hard on the carpets we had at the time. I think we eventually removed all the carpets as a flea control measure.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-02-2017, 04:20 AM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpowderbill View Post
I agree with the monetary side of this. ...

It's like a cycle alright and IMO if the $ is down in one area the advertizing part of the business starts putting out YOU NEED THIS CAUSE ads.
When the flu vaccine originally was developed in the mid 70s, the lobbyists sold it to Congress as a way to keep workers on the job. Before long, the lawyers got into the act and sold it to the courts as a "lifesaver" despite the fact that all the studies show it doesn't save lives.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-03-2017, 12:56 PM
jvcstone jvcstone is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 1,962
Default

and for the most part, doesn't even prevent getting the flu.

JVC
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-03-2017, 05:23 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,977
Default

I thought this thread was about rabies, but since it has become general...I may have mentioned in the past that I conducted an "anecdotal study" consisting of approximately 50 people over a 7-year period, about half took the flu vaccine and half did not. The incidence of influenza among that population (mostly medical folks, well exposed to disease) showed no difference between the two groups. In other words, the flu vaccine did nothing to prevent the disease in that group over that period of time. On the other hand, we did work with the HIB vaccine in children, and the results were dramatic. Haemophilus influenza type B was the largest contributor to meningitis in children. After the vaccine was introduced, H. flu meningitis deaths dropped dramatically. There is a big difference in the value of different vaccines. I DO however, believe that we vaccinate our children against far too many diseases that they will most likely never be exposed to, and there is a big money factor in that process.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:32 AM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 837
Default

Don Threads metamorph just like lots of other things. I do not take the flu shots. I read an article in the past written by a physician who was in search of causes and influences in Alzheimer's Disease. The physician writing the article had a dad who was also a Physician himself, and the dad had religiously taken the flu shots each year and had been in perfect health, up until the time he began exhibiting symptoms of Alzheimer's. The writing Physician produced some very strong & provocative evidence against the flu shots at least in my opinion.

From my own personal experience an older gentleman and mentor to me early in my career, took the flu shots religiously each and every year. Most years he had the flu, although not necessarily a severe case. He began showing symptoms of Alzheimer's Disease just a short time after his retirement, and when he died, he didn't have a clue as to who he was. There have been a few other similar cases, but my colleagues situation was the most notable.

Maybe they are just coincidences, but I distinctly remember Gibbs Rule # 39: There is no such thing as a coincidences! I most certainly agree.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 03:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.