Those who want to ban your ownership and carry of firearms claim that armed citizens have never stopped a mass murder.
Your best one-stop shopping to prove that’s either a lie or willful ignorance is, courtesy of Dr. John Lott and the Crime Prevention Research Center, here: https://crimeresearch.org/2019/05/uber-driver-in-chicago-stops-mass-public-shooting/.
The gun debate should have been over in 1968. Some beliefs cannot be proven by science one way or the other. Gun ownership by citizens does not fall into that category. When people REALLY want to believe in something, inconvenient facts are dismissed.
We have decades of American crime statistics, and the twentieth century’s record of death-by-government on our side. Still, the other side wants to believe in a gun-free, weapons-free, violence-free utopia. Of course, the devious smart ones on the other side believe the facts, but they want to have guns while ruling over us, and not allowimg us to be armed. They don’t want to enable us to challenge their right to rule us. Technology changes, but human nature doesn’t. They are no different from the kings, dictators, conquerors and tyrants of the past, but their methods are more subtle.
@ Roger Willco – Jesus noted, in Matthew 26:11, that “You will always have the poor among you…”
Sadly, the same thing is true regarding Left-Wing Ideology. Just as humanity will never be able to eliminate the scourge of extreme poverty, we will also never be able to eliminate the scourge of radical leftism. Both arise from human weakness and flaws in the workings of the human mind.
As you note, leftism comes in two flavors. One is the power-hungry, tyrannical form that is driven to seek absolute control over the lives of every other fellow human on the planet. These are the cynical tyrants and dictators of the Left.
The milder form contains people who’s mind is “wired” to view the world in leftist terms. The minds of these people are innately programmed to view humanity as “naturally good” and who, in consequence, view the evils of the world as arising from environmental and social factors.
These people support leftist causes not because they are tyrants, themselves, but because their mis-wired brains tell them that the leftist program is the way to move forward. These people do not call themselves “Progressives” for nothing. They honestly believe that leftist programs represent progress toward a better future. Despite over a century of failures and leftist initiatives that only lead to death and disaster, something in their minds still tells them that (if only it can be done correctly), left-wing programs will lead to improvements in the human condition.
I suspect the true tyrants on the left represent a tiny minority. Out of the total population of the U.S. there are probably less then 1 million (in government, media, Hollywood, business and academia) that harbor true tyrannical tendencies. What makes these people dangerous is the population of “honest leftists”. This group probably represent at least 40 % of the U.S. population. Probably more then 100 million people.
The tyrannical elites constantly use propaganda to play to those individuals who are susceptible to leftist thinking. These people are constantly manipulated into supporting the tyrants. This support is what REALLY makes our home-grown left-wing tyrants dangerous.
It also explains why the effort to prohibit firearms will not just “Go Away”. The portion of the population, susceptible to left-wing thought, can be easily manipulated into believing that firearms represent a “harmful environmental influence” on humanity. The argument that restrictions and bans upon firearms will produce beneficial effects is readily believed by people who are already wired for “Leftist Thought”. It is a ridiculous argument, of course, since the pre-firearm world (think about ancient Rome, the Vikings or the Mongol hordes) was far more violent than the post-firearm world of today.
Nevertheless, rational arguments will never prevail against the emotional “feelings” of people who’s minds are cross-wired for the Left-Wing worldview. Until modern psychology develops treatments and therapies for left-wing thought, we are stuck with dealing with the consequences of Leftist Ideology. Unfortunately, I see little chance that modern psychology will even work on the problem. A great many of the people in the field of psychology, themselves, suffer from the left-wing mindset. It is probably expecting too much to say: “Physician, heal thyself”.
Great comments, TN_MAN. I just want to add a bit about the attractiveness of Marxism/Leftism/Liberalism/Humanism/Statism/Progressivism.
It’s an attractive philosophy because it puts man in charge, making him the king of his life, and the world. “It’s good to be the king.” (Mel Brooks) You get to make your own decisions and have things go your way, most of the time. In the twentieth century, progressivism was allied with science, or it seemed to be, and science just went from strength to strength, discovering new wonders, accomplishing miracles, and making our lives much better, in the physical sense.
Look at Christianity. You are required to submit to a Monarch, the King of Kings, Who watches your every move. The Old Testament provides lessons learned by people and nations who displeased God. Ugly stuff. Jesus said we have to suffer to enter this otherworldly kingdom. Who in modern America wants to suffer? Who wants to deny themselves every day, and take up their cross every day. The cross was an instrument of torture, which produced slow, painful deaths. Lots of rules to follow in Christianity.
Liberals just seem to have more fun. That was especially true for the hippies in the 1960s. Even a conservative atheist today would be viewed as someone who walked the straight and narrow, wore boring suits, worked at a boring job, in order to pay taxes, and cut the grass around his house on the weekends. Wow, that’s an exciting life, isn’t it?
Liberalism simply wins the popularity contest, with its emphasis on feelings, not duties, self-esteem, not humility.
To point out extreme examples of the two different lifestyles, I would submit two specimens. On the one hand, we have the Hollywood actor/actress portraying the liberal lifestyle. An example of a Christian really following the Bible might be an Amish man/woman, although I admit that is a bit extreme. However, I am emphasizing the differences between these two philosophies/worldviews, the Left and the Right. It’s easier to see the differences when looking at extreme examples.
@ Roger Willco – Your point is that being a leftist/liberal/socialist is more fun than being a boring conservative and that this is a major reason why people are attracted to the ideology.
I do not agree. Despite the so-call freedom from conventional morality, that the leftists supposedly enjoy, have you ever met a leftist that was truly happy and satisfied? I have not. Leftists are always ANGRY because the world does not measure up to their Utopian dreams. They are always ENGAGED in ACTIVISM, PROTESTS and various SOCIAL MOVEMENTS that seek to improve the world and bring them the happiness that they lack.
No Sir! I don’t expect that many leftists sit around listening to Johnny Cash sing “A Satisfied Mind” because the theme of that song would not sit well with such folks!
They are always critical. Not only of conservatives but even of their own side. They are always seeking to enforce their Politically Correct Code-of-Conduct which is worse, and less tolerant, then the mandates of conventional religions.
No, while some may pretend to left-wing ideology out of a misguided belief that it frees them to pursue then own lust and depravity, I believe that most leftists are tortured souls who cannot find peace in this world because their innate belief in the perfection of mankind drives them to continually strive to modify society in a vain attempt to create the fabled Left-Wing Utopia of which they dream. They turn their backs on God and, in their arrogance, seek to create their own heaven-on-earth but, because they have not yet achieved the Godhood for which they lust, the heavens that they create turn out to be various types of hell.
Anyway, I think that is the case with the typical leftist. The hardcore, tyrannical sub-class are driven by an ego-based lust for absolute power and for the wealth that great power brings. Whether their vain lust for power brings them any happiness is more then I can say. It is all vanity since death will come to claim them no matter how much power and wealth they acquire for themselves.
I stick by my initial concept. Leftists have mis-wired brains that are programmed to view the world in left-wing terms. Like most people who suffer from a kind of mental defect, they are never as happy as us “Normals” no matter how depraved they become. Why else do you think that they hate us so?
TN_MAN,
You make good points, as usual. But I am trying to understand why after so many years of misery in other countries, Leftists still want to try Marxism here. What is the attraction? I guess the people who are attracted to that worldview are simply deluded.
A fish sees that shiny lure and thinks he has found a tasty meal. Then, he bites the bait, and instead of pleasure on his tastebuds, he feels the sharp hook. He was deceived.
Roger Willco – “But I am trying to understand why after so many years of misery in other countries, Leftists still want to try Marxism here. What is the attraction?”
Logic and reason cannot be applied to Left-Wing ideology. It is an emotion-driven philosophy.
I believe that humans have a “Trust Setting” inside their minds. It defines how much a human trusts other humans. This is a trust in humanity, in general, rather than the ability to build trust with individual friends. I believe that this Trust Value gets set by a combination of genetics and childhood experiences. By the time an individual reaches adulthood, this trust setting generally hardens into a final, life-long value.
Leftists have an unusually high “Trust Setting”. They view humanity, in general, as very trustworthy. In effect, they innately believe that humanity is good. Note that this is not something that they can control nor is it generally susceptible to change by reason or logical argument. Leftists “feel”, to the depths of their being, this innate trust in the goodness of their fellow-man.
The logical part of their mind then works to “rationalize” these feelings. This logical part must deal with a paradox, however. If mankind is innately good. If mankind is inherently “Trustworthy”, then how does the leftist rationalize the great amount of evil in the world? After all, if humans are truly so good, then the world should be an utopia of peace and love.
The Leftist mind resolves this paradox by shifting the blame for all the evils in the world to environmental and social causes. The Leftist comes to believe that we can create utopia (literally heaven-on-earth), if only we could identify and eliminate all of the negative environmental influences loose in the world.
Therefore, the Left has compiled a huge list of “negative influences”. These include poverty, child abuse, drug addiction, racism, sexism, homophobia, weapon proliferation, class struggle, etc., etc., etc.
The Leftist program consists of building a powerful, central government and then using that government to completely regulate the lives of the people in such a way as to mitigate all these negative environmental influences. Successful mitigation of all these negative influences should release the innate goodness and trustworthiness of mankind thereby generating the “Left-Wing Utopia”. The creation of Heaven-on-Earth, all under the guiding control of the Leftist Elites.
Consider LBJ’s “Great Society” programs. They are a classic example of Left-Wing thinking. LBJ was a determined leftist and, as President of the United States, he was trying to create the Left-Wing Utopia. If you listen to his speeches, at the time, he basically comes out and says so.
This is ridiculous, of course, because it is all based upon a false premise. The innate goodness of mankind. Therefore, these Left-Wing programs always fail and, typically, generate a host of disastrous unintended consequences. However, it is foolish to expect that true leftists will learn from the past and abandon left-wing ideology. They cannot do so because it would mean changing the “Trust Setting” in their minds. This is like asking someone to change their IQ or to change their personality. It can only be done with great difficulty, if possible at all.
Therefore, Leftist cannot truly help being what they are. The Left-Wing Worldview is, to an extent, “hardwired” into their minds. This is why they keep reverting to ideas like Marxism or Firearms-Prohibition irrespective of their long history of failure and their inherent lack-of-logic. Leftists cannot free themselves of leftist ideology anymore than a fish can free itself from water.
A good friend of mine was THERE when a mass murder with a gun broke out… unfortunately for her, she was down the mall quite a ways, and when she heard the gunshots, the next thing she heard was the metal gate dropping down imprisoning her inside one of the shops where she had been. So SHE was blocked from taking any action. At this point I might add she is VERY highly trained and skilled in the use of defensive weapons. Her husband is the guy that trains Law Enforcement in several counties, at at the state level as well.
Thankfully, there WAS another man, whose name was familiar to me when I learned it, but could not place. HE, relatively young, was at that mall that day, lawfully armed with his handgun. When HE heard the shots, he ran TOWARD the sounds. As he approached the killer, in a very crowded passageway with many folks panicking and trying to get away from the killer, he stepped behind a large column for cover, drew his weapon, and placed his sights on the killer, who had already killed two and was still shooting. Since there were innocents in the backdrop behind where his shots would travel, he held his fire, hoping for a shot clear of innocents bein the backdrop. As he waited, the perp noticed the citizen, sights trained steadily on himself. He turned away, walked quickly down the hallway and round a corner where he did the best thing he’d done all day with his own weapon, He used it to end his own life.
The perp had a gymn bag full of prepped magazines for his weapon, seemed equipped and supplied to murder a few hundred people. His victim count only rose to two…. instead of a possible two hundred. WHY? Because that young man, armed and trained and skilled, hasted himself TOWARD the sound of gunfire. Even though he never fired a shot (hat’s off for his self-discipline to hold fire because innocents were at risk of harm from HIS gunfire.) This event did not get much national press… I am convinced because it was not useful to the lamestream media’s preferred narrative. Armed civilian ends public massacre and never pulls his own trigger. NO QUESTION this yong man saved many lives that day.
My friend did not feel badly once she learned what HAD gone down. SHe was certainly sufficiently skilled and trained to have made a difference, and prepared as well. She does not regret being denied her “shot” at the hero’s role. She is only thankful SOMEONE was there, ready, and ACTED.
That venue is, per the preference of owners/managers, a “gun free zone”, but because they had not been careful to comply with state laws regarding mandatory uniform signage and placment of same, we who KNOW the law (which should include veryone with a Mother May I Card to carry in that state, (and the mandatory three hour class required) know as well that the “gun free preference” is not binding under the law. We ignore the signs that are there, as they do not comply with state requirements, and carry on. Several years later, those same non-compliant signs are still there, and we all still carry on whenever we are there. LE also are well aware, and never harrass anyone seen armed. The owners seem content, as well, realising those who NEED to know, do, that the place is not REALLY yhe gun free zone it sort of claims to be. It is sort of the local joke…. only the stupid with evil intent will think it a gun free zone, and, as this dirtbag did, plan accordingly, and poorly. No one knows if he was surprised to be gazing up the business end of a handgun as he continued to work his evil.
So glad the taxpayers never had to waste their money warehousing and prosecuting and punishing this buy. A few bucks to dig a hole and drop him into it was about it.
Tionico,
Great story, and true to boot! Stopping a bad guy on a rampage without firing a shot even goes beyond my expectations of a happy ending. Too bad this wasn’t nightly news for a month all over the world.
I want to speculate that if he took the shot, and it had entered, then exited the perpetrator, going on to hit a bystander, that would still be an acceptable outcome for me. I do not live in a perfect world, and the good guy would still be a hero to me, because he stopped a massacre, with an acceptable amount of collateral damage.
Another scenario would be if the good guy shot multiple times at the goblin, some shots hitting him, and some missing, to hit bystanders by mistake. That would also be an acceptable outcome to me, because the massacre was shortened. The good guy would still be a hero to me, but one who was not at the top of his game on that day.
To stop a massacre by simply pointing your gun at the evildoer, is a truly beautiful thing all around. Heroism on display!
Sun Tzu said;”The ability to defeat your opponent by depriving him of the will to attack is the greatest victory possible.”
This young man was truly a victor that day.
I am familiar with this incident. It has been cited several times as one of the best examples of the MSM’s unwillingness to publish stories that don’t fit in their narrative.
Roger,
The story was nightly news locally (that was the Clackamas Mall shooting in Oregon, correct?). The date was December 11, 2012.
I remember the date because of the primary reason it was almost forgotten: Three days later — December 14, 2012 — Adam Lanza murdered a class of second graders and several faculty at Sandy Hook Elementary School, after killing his mother and taking her guns. The media and the Left (but I repeat myself) jumped all over this one, to the exclusion of everything else.
Clackamas was all-but-forgotten the second a more tragic (read: better at selling The Narrative[TM]) story came along.
In the mind of gun controllers, armed citizens have never stopped a mass murder (defined as four or more people killed in a single event).
The logic goes like this:
If a killer kills four or more people, and is taken down by an armed citizen, then the armed citizen did not stop a mass murder (at best, the armed citizen merely prevented it from being worse … not that gun controllers will ever admit that).
If a killer kills three or fewer people, and is taken down by an armed citizen, then the event doesn’t meet the definition of “mass murder”, and so the armed citizen did not stop a mass murder.
(You can see this by researching which “mass murder” events get included in — and more importantly, excluded from — their lists. Events in which armed citizens intervened before reaching the defined body count are categorically excluded, even when the killer had the means and obvious intent to continue. When pressed on that point, some will admit that “three or fewer killed” == “not a mass murder event”.)
In their own twisted logic, the claim that an armed citizen has never stopped a mass murder is 100% true.
Instead of insisting that armed non-LEO citizens help stop mass murders — a point they will NEVER cede — try pointing out that by their logic, police have also never stopped a mass murder. And because police have never stopped a mass murder, police should not be granted exemptions from “gun control” laws. Hang that albatross around their neck and make them defend it.
Your math logic is devastatingly valid, Archer.
If one is ever in a position to shoot at an armed murderer in a crowded area and there are people behind that goblin, making it difficult to take shots without hitting an innocent(s) or having bullets pass through him/her to injure or kill others, kneel down and fire upwards. That way if one misses the target or the bullet(s) overpenetrates, they will go over the heads of others, depending on the distance to the perpetrator. This tactic only works at close range where the angles are steep and preferably with head shots. Something to consider – just in case.
One might do better to start from the prone position and go to kneeling only if necessary. In military training, sometimes this is also the best way to avoid getting hit on the helmet by a 2 by four in the hands of cadre.
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