If you have studied the tactics of armed self-defense at all, you are familiar with the pioneering work of my good friend John Farnam. If you have studied it deeply, you are aware that John’s wife, Vicki Farnam, is an expert in her own right who specializes in training females. Vicki has come up with a fascinating protocol for teaching off-body carry for women, whose wardrobes and life-styles are less compatible with concealed handgun carry than those of their brothers.
Vicki found that women more than men were more likely for that reason to carry off-body – in purses, briefcases, etc – than holstered on their physical person. Rather than denigrate them for it, she decided to teach them how to do it effectively.
Most of us consider the purse, fanny pack, etc. sub-optimal because they’re not terribly fast, and because a criminal may begin the assault by snatching at that purse or whatever. Pointing out that bad guys can snatch guns from holsters too, Vicki came up with the solution of “off-body” carry attached to the torso with a strap to make it on-body carry, and a series of patterned movements that maximize drawing speed and efficiency from there.
I strongly recommend her new book “FlexCCarry Solutions: a Positive Guide for Off-Body Carry.” I watched her friend and contemporary, the highly-skilled Martha Hoelschen, shoot a very credible score in the shooting match at this year’s RangeMaster Tactical Conference in Dallas using an across-the-chest-strapped purse holster that Vicki recommends.
I’m not a fan of off-body carry, but I am a fan of good people carrying a handgun wherever it is legal and practical to do so. I understand the constraints of women’s fashion. (And this can work for men too, of course.) All Vicki’s many recommended carry products include a dedicated holster inside the given container, carried with nothing else in that compartment to get in the way.
Read her book, and better yet, see about taking one of her hands-on classes offered around the country.
If you’re a firearms instructor who spits on off-body carry and says in essence, “If you don’t carry what I carry the way I carry it, to Hell with you,” you have no soul and don’t belong teaching good people how to protect themselves from evil people.
Fanny packs or whatever that are securely attached to the body aren’t exactly off-body but just a different sort of holster. I am reminded of the Serpa controversy. What got my attention was the videos of the holsters being ripped off the belt. I am not sure whether other holsters were tested in that way. Certainly anything used for open carry should be no matter the protective level of the holster itself. Belts, too. No one is going to rip a duty belt off but there are lots in inadequate belts in use.
I suppose some would regard it as a form of open carry but if you hang around with old people or tourists there are a lot of fanny packs that I am pretty sure don’t have guns in them. Wallets or phones perhaps.
I am reminded of the Serpa controversy. What got my attention was the videos of the holsters being ripped off the belt.
I have one of those Serpa holsters, and used it before I upgraded to a better holster for me.
My non-professional opinion is, if it’s easy to “rip [it] off the belt”, it’s not set up or configured correctly; when set up properly it is comparably secure to most other holsters. (And no, to my knowledge no other holsters were subjected to that test, and most IWB holsters — especially ones using “snaps” or plastic J-hooks to clip it to the belt — probably wouldn’t fare any better.)
I do somewhat understand the hate that instructors tend to have for Serpa holsters — the retention-release button’s placement can be … problematic … without training. But subjecting them to additional “tests” — criteria that other holsters are not tested on — in order to “prove” their inferiority, isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison.
I have carried concealed as long as the right has been legally available in Texas (about 28 years). However, I am 75 now and have been retired for 13 years and have a home office where I take care of my daily financial affairs. My usual attire is expandable waistline shorts, t-shirts, and loafers. That wardrobe will not support an IWB carry like jeans and a good leather belt. I now have mobility issues and use a walker in my home, and a cane when I need to run an errand. I use home delivery a lot. At home I always have a Glock 19 in a holster strapped to my walker, so my Glock is everywhere I am at home and easily in reach in case of home invasion.
My problem is how to carry when I am away from home and outside my truck with my usual attire of t-shirt and expandable waistline shorts. For the first time in my life, I am now considering a fanny pack in some configuration that allows me to carry on my person (belly band configurations are under consideration, as well). The fact that it is not as fast as a strong side IWB holster will have to be sacrificed to at least have a pistol on me whenever I am away from home. Therefore, I still have more protection than most of the able bodied populace that can carry and do not. YMMV.
I wear the same things. Can’t wear jeans due to ostomy next to belly button
Jeans knock the bag off.
I have a metal clip on a thin snubby holsrer IWB to L side in front. Trouble is my belly hangs over it enough to delay a draw.
Many of these elastic banded shorts don’t have enough tention to stay up in place.
What’s the solution to this?
.
Definitely consider a concealed carry bag like a waist pack or a sling bag! There are many great options on the market and Vicki’s book (that Mass referenced) can help you find the way to carry effectively in a bag. Her website (flexccarrysolutions.com) lists the standards to look for in a bag, and there is also a link to the certified instructors across the country that provide training on how to setup and draw from the bag.
Shoulder holsters come in many configurations and often have “weak side” option for extra-mag, flashlight, handcuffs [ if you’re into that sort of thing ];
Also very large waist(ed) pants with stiff belts AND stiff suspenders may well fit “loosely” over the ostomy bag without displacing it while standing erect / walking, although sitting and rising from sitting remains a studied series of motions.
Have you looked into the PHLster carry system? http://www.phlsterholsters.com
It is designed to work with the way you usually dress, no belt required. It also works with the more typical way people dress outside the home.
My main issue with off body carry is the number of purses and/or whatever they call the portfolio type thing you see some folks toting about that are left in unlocked desk drawers, on top of same, in unattended shopping carts or thrown where ever guests pile their coats and paraphernalia at gatherings. If there’s a weapon on board that isn’t a good thing. Same if the see it everywhere back pack is going to be used instead.
The gun toting fanny back really isn’t off body, and having been places where real fanny packs apparently get/got issued at birth, the differences are really noticeable. However, your wallet may be in the fanny pack-see below.
Based upon personal experience, I believe blazing speed of presentation is over valued. The striking difference between defensive gun uses and actual shootings suggest that street theater (if you will) is quite effective. I refer to an ability to competently and promptly assume a stable shooting position and look like you’re willing to shoot. Actually being willing goes without saying.
One of the largely unrealized benefits of the 3:30/8:30 carry position is that the arm motion to draw and present the weapon is quite like that of reaching for and removing a wallet. At least if your motion is deliberate. Purse carry would present much the same look until you’re inside their decision loop. That said, don’t draw against the drop. With the possible exception of Mas, none of us are John Wick. Or Vincent if one remembers Collateral. Personally, I believe in having the wallet on the other side so you don’t accidentally flash the gun while getting it out. But the other person(s) don’t know that.
My issue with off-body carry in bags/backpacks/portfolios is how often the compartment with the gun is packed with other things that could: a) get in the way of getting a firm hold of the gun, and b) possibly end up inside the trigger guard and cause or contribute to a negligent discharge. This is why it’s important to pick the right pack/bag, with a dedicated (read: nothing else in it) “gun compartment” and a fixed holster that doesn’t shift or bounce around.
And I also agree that “quick draw” is mostly for Western films. The vast majority of situations in which a gun might be useful, taking a second or two to draw and get on target isn’t going to make a huge difference.
Finally, I started habitually carrying my wallet on the side opposite my gun for the very reason you state. Particularly for interactions with law enforcement (who are sometimes not clear on CCW laws or the citizens’ rights or responsibilities concerning CCW); the last thing I want is for an officer who accidentally sees my firearm and already feels threatened to think I’m reaching for the gun when I’m trying to get my wallet to show my CCW license. Having the wallet on the other side, accessible to the other hand, should help mitigate that.
My usual method is pocket carry of either a small semi-auto or J-Frame revolver. However, I sometimes use a fanny pack when hiking. My fanny pack rig allows me to carry my Taurus Judge (3 inch barrel) which I think makes an excellent trail revolver.
So, I use the fanny pack because it allows me to carry a larger firearm while still keeping it hidden but quickly reachable.
Sometimes, when traveling, I will have a small pistol on me but carry a large pistol in a briefcase. The briefcase will not allow a quick draw, thus the small gun in a pocket holster, but it will allow for transportation. Plus, in case of emergency, the larger gun could be accessed just not with a quick draw.
There is an inverse relationship between size of firearm and ease of carry. Therefore, there will never be a perfect, universal carry method.
All these different carry options exist for a reason. One size will never fit all when it comes to carrying a firearm.
I do similar with a pocket pistol and a sling bag.
This also applies to men. I am required to take physical therapy once or twice per year due to some skeletal problems. I have settled on carrying a kahr pm9 slipped into my man bag, which i watch like a hawk and keep with me. I just couldn’t find a good way to carry in that particular circumstance. I also ride bicycles and kayak often, which requires some creativity. Occasionally i carry a glock 19 off body while relying on an airweight j frame for immediate action the off body container winds up going for grabs. Swimming is the trickiest. I don’t recommend off body carry unless its necessary, however, people’s individual mindset is really the main variable, and always will be. Stuff like this does need to be fleshed out instead of being ignored. Glad this resource is available and thanks to Mas for sharing it.
If one carries a murse and gets teased, advise the scoffer that it’s a messenger bag.
It sure would be nice if one of the manufacturers would come up with a very small and light, highly concealable major caliber, high-capacity handgun with low recoil. But until we find our way around Sir Isaac’s Law, we each have to make do.
how about we just get rid of criminals bent on hurting us? then again, we’d still be stuck with Sir Isaac’s law i recon…
I was recently in the grocery store and had to slip around the cart of a 20ish couple in the aisle. Her purse was unzipped and flopped open revealing the contents … and making them accessible for a snatch/grab. Sure enough, inside was a compact semiauto with the butt of the gun poking up just enough to be seen and grabbed.
I passed them several times eyeing the purse and considering a comment. They never seemed aware. I finally decided they didn’t look like they would welcome a recommendation.
That kind of off-body is cringe! ~~ Suggestions on whether to say something to them, or not?
Chris Thayer,
I think I would say something. This is an important topic. She should want to be told that she is leaving that gun vulnerable to a snatch. Gun people are generally good people.
You must speak gently and softly. Maybe even wait until all three of you are outside the store. Something like, “Ma’am, I’m glad you are carrying, but I can see it.”
I don’t know what the gun culture is like where you live. Where I live, if a ninny-nanny saw what you saw, it is quite possible the ninny-nanny would secretly call the cops. A SWAT team would show up. That girl would be slammed to the ground, and get a concrete facial.
So, around here, yeah I would speak up, (softly), if I saw such a thing.
TW wrote:
‘I always have a Glock 19 in a holster strapped to my walker’.
If you get the chance don’t miss that searing epic ‘Cockneys vs Zombies’.
No serious student of the cinematic art should miss.
It has the ultimate man/machine killer combination:
80 year old Richard Briers (a british comedy staple) with an uzi taped to his walker!
He also has a nail biting chase; at half mile an hour against a shuffling zombie.
I’m signed up to take the FlexCCarry Instructor course.
Can’t help but make a comment from a female perspective. Having a weapon to protect yourself whether off body/flex carry is better than being unprotected. We can’t always carry IWB due to several factors: c-section scars, other surgical scars, narrow hip bones, body shape, short waisted, pregnancy (not recommending live fire practice here – only dry fire for pregnancy) are a few of the factors. I had my doubts about off body/flex carry before being educated by taking Vicki’s class. It was an eye opening educational experience for me. “Truly responsible gun owners” will hopefully take the necessary trainings to learn no matter which method you use. I say “truly” because even people who carry IWB or other methods don’t always take trainings or even practice regularly dry fire or live. What’s more scary is people who do carry that have no education and don’t go to the range and practice. This is where we the emphasis needs to be.
I routinely used a fanny pack after both my hip replacement surgeries. At the advice of my surgeon, I could not wear pants with a belt. Since I was quite mobility compromised and could use the fanny pack, it was the best option.
Concealment? Well, the Uncle Mike’s fanny pack was hot pink colored. Not what you’d expect a Compact 45 or S&W 915 to come out of. (Yes, I willingly endured some really vile criticism.) There was additional pockets for car keys, wallet, cell phone, knife and sone change as well. It was a good option for a temporarily disabled male.