With a new, Obama-appointed Surgeon General with a long history of anti-gun advocacy, we now see a resurgence of the Prohibitionists’ efforts to have firearms ownership be excoriated as a health and safety risk to Americans.
Sigh…
When I opened my first shooting school to teach armed citizens the use of deadly force in 1981, I very quickly noticed something my predecessors in the private firearms academy business, Jeff Cooper and Ray Chapman and John Farnam, had already seen: in more classes than not, health care professionals were the single most highly represented occupational category among the students. That trend has continued to this day.
It seems counterintuitive to those who don’t understand the real-world dynamics of not only guns, but self-defense. All that’s required to understand it is common sense. Doctors and nurses and paramedics and rehabilitation therapists aren’t like ordinary citizens, who see violence mentioned in their morning paper or on TV, mutter “Tsk, tsk,” and turn the page or the channel. These medical professionals see the results of violent criminal assault upon the innocent, and some of them see it daily!
Because they deal with life and death (or life-threatening illness and trauma) on such a regular basis, doctors and other health-care providers become realists and pragmatists. And when you analyze survival of violent crime realistically and pragmatically, seeing its victims so often, it is logical to very soon come to a realistic and pragmatic conclusion: Not me! Not mine!
I hate it when newspapers get hold of concealed carry permit lists and publish them, but one good thing has come from that: every single time it happens, you see a disproportionate number of the gun carriers are medical people (and lawyers, and judges). The people who deal with reality day in, and day out. There is something to be learned from that.
A great resource is Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership, at http://www.drgo.us/. Read the recent article by Dr. John Edeen, a Texas MD who compares two homicides which occurred in medical environments, both perpetrators having opened fire with the intent of murdering medical professionals. One was ended by a doc who had his own gun…the other was not. Dr. Edeen’s article speaks for itself. I know Dr. Edeen, and have spoken on a panel with him speaking against the fallacious “gun-free zone” concept, along with gunfight researcher Chris Bird, at the Gun Rights Policy Conference in 2014, available here.
The founder and head of DRGO is my old friend Dr. Tim Wheeler. He, like the large membership for whom he speaks, is a voice of reality.
Dr. Edeen’s voice of reason is found most recently here.
I’m not a doctor. But I’ve heard the beginning of the Hyppocratic Oath translated variously as “First, do no harm,” and also as “First, do no further harm.”
It seems to me that “First, do not ALLOW any further harm to be done to your patients or your fellow caregivers” might be an appropriate modern translation.
Comments are, as always, welcome.
Thank you for such a well written article. I had no idea that the medical profession were such realists when it came to this topic, but what you said makes sense. It’s too bad that institutions purporting to represent the medical community do such a poor job when it comes to this issue.
This is why I carry in doctors offices; I’ll be darned if I (or my family members) get blown away by some sicko with bad aim!
TXCOMT
Sir;
I am a physician and prior student of yours. You hit the nail on the head.
Not only have I had the less than unique opportunity to care for members of the Saturday Night Gun and Knife Club, I also have had the task of caring for the unsuspecting dupe that had the misfortune of simply being convenient and available to the wrong people at the wrong time.
Not me, not mine!
The first part of “To do no harm” is to be there. Your teaching, and that of several others has significantly increased the likelyhood that I and my family will continue to be there to care for those who chose to depend solely on others to care for them.
Cliff from SD
As always, Mas, you and any to whom you point us for further reading are voices of reason and a lifeline of sanity when it comes to legislation involving firearms.
Sadly, I am entirely convinced we are no longer living in a sane world. Having worked at a major University for over 25 years I have seen that the last people who understand “common sense” are those who are supposed to be the Smartest in the Room. It just isn’t the case, and I must sadly feel that Dr. Edeen’s complete comprehension of this matter as viewed through a realistic lens is the minority view.
Also sadly, there are too many “do as I say, not as I do” types in all public service professions, even those who should be apolitical. Every press conference announcing the newest incarnation of freedom-thieving gun legislation has police officers and even some Chiefs used as props to demonstrate how The Law is supportive of it. Despite their inclusion in lists of concealed-carry holders, I’m willing to bet that a majority of those in the stated professions (medical, lawyers, and judges) when questioned would not support The Great Unwashed being allowed the same permits that they of course must be allowed as Very Important People.
Sorry for the rank cynicism this early in the AM (0700 on the east coast) but I’ve witnessed too much of this with my own eyes to *not* be a cynic.
YMMV/IMBFOS
Does it need to be mentioned that this is really only an issue because the mainstream medical associations favor gun control? For example, the American Medical Association?
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/topics/violence-prevention.page
It’s not just the new Surgeon General who favors gun control. If most doctors were opposed to it, states wouldn’t feel the need to pass laws restricting physician’s rights to ask their patients about gun ownership:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/doctors-cant-ask-about-guns/375566/
If a disproportionate number those who take Mas’ classes and acquire concealed carry permits are doctors and lawyers, that would seem to at least potentially conflict with the position taken by the mainstream medical profession. A common theme — dare I say trope — in pro-gun discussions, including here, is the “hypocritical liberal,” the liberal who supports gun control but who carries or hires armed bodyguards. Assuming arguendo the validity of that theme, I suppose that something like it could be going on here. Or perhaps there are just enough doctors and lawyers that a minority who feel the need to carry for self protection are enough to cause a disproportionate rise in the number who take classes and carry concealed. But the best that can be said is that some significant number of lawyers and doctors feel the need to do those things, but to say more than that would stretch the evidence, I think.
Well written article, I’m an RN that works in an ICU in a level 1 trauma center, I’ve seen more than my fair share of gsw victims to know that I do not want to become one myself. You are correct in why many of us in this field carry firearms some have a passion for firearms and compete in competitions some like having the security of knowing they have a means to protect themselves. Laws aimed at gun control will have no effect on those who are not law abiding. On 1/24/2014 there was a murder suicide at my hospital (http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/01/woman_involved_in_double_shoot.html) despite the anti-gun policy and threatening signs posted all over our hospital this shooting still happened. Having situational awareness of your surroundings and being prepared for what might come your way is not the same as being paranoid, it’s just plain smart. It’s the same reason I keep a fire extinguisher in my kitchen, I hope I’ll never have to use it but I’m glad I have one if I ever needed it. To pass new firearm laws without enforcing the ones we have now is just inept and unresponsive and the ultimate victims will be the ones who the laws are supposed to protect.
Mas, thank you for the kudos. You have accurately analyzed doctors’ motivations here.
My eyes were first opened to the realities of violent crime when I landed a coveted surgical internship in what was then one of America’s most violent cities, living and working in one of its most dangerous precincts. That started my crash course in armed self defense. But it was only after reading your groundbreaking books “In The Gravest Extreme” and “The Truth About Self Protection” that I came to understand how best to assume the very serious responsibility of self defense. Taking your course LFI-I exponentially increased my knowledge.
Rest assured that DRGO will continue to counter the efforts of public health gun prohibitionists everywhere.
Tim
Timothy Wheeler, MD
Director
Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership
A Project of the Second Amendment Foundation
@ Dave (the liberal, non-Uncle one)
Just like all Liberals, you want to Quote puesdo facts, parroted by the Lame Stream News Media, and other biased Organizations, who don’t speak for their membership’s, and never will, so long as they are owned and controlled by Liberals, or only pretend to speak for the management of those Organizations!
I believe, along with our wise Dear Leader and his almost equally smart Attorney General, that if we in America destroyed all our evil firearms, evil goblins, including ISIS aka Incredibly Sadistic Islamic Savages, around the world will disarm also and we can then all live in peace. We in the United States should set a good example and get rid of guns, especially the diabolical black assault weapons. We really don’t need them as the United Nations will protect us with their peacekeepers. Viva World Peace!
When I was still a LEO, I spent lots of time in the emergency rooms of local hospitals and the folks there, especially the nurses were very happy that someone with a gun was nearby in case sometime bad were to happen. Since all hospital administrations prohibit the possession of firearms on their premises, other than LEOs, the employees are sitting ducks if some nut were to start shooting inside. The worse cases are when a gang member has been shot and taken to the E.R. and their fellow scumbags hang around the waiting rooms. I’ve been sent to keep the peace during several of these incidents, and if the gangbangers don’t approach me or threaten any employees, I can’t legally pat them down for weapons. With their baggy clothes and bulky jackets which they wear even in warm weather, there’s no telling what they’re concealing under those garments.
In my opinion we need lock boxes at the entrances of government building, especially courthouses, so visitors, jurors in particular, could secure their guns when they enter and retrieve them when exiting. Jurors oftentimes have to stay very late and in my city, the downtown area is not a place one wants to be after dark, especially since only employees, lawyers, and LEOs can park under the building and all others need to walk several blocks to their cars or the very expensive parking garages with goblins lurking in the shadows. It would cost very little to install some lockboxes in these buildings which usually have at least one security guard present and in my local courthouse, two deputy sheriffs guarding the main entrance. No one will be able to steal those locked up firearms.
I am a retired hospital administrator. During my tenure as such, I had the opportunity to relieve no less than four people of their handguns before rendering them treatment in the ER or for allowing them to even be in the hospital lobby. Firearms are just not allowed in the hospital. Having said that, at one hospital I kept a S&W Model 59 in my bottom desk drawer. It was always cocked and locked and ready to go with one always in the pipe. I had been threatened and some of my nurses were afraid so I had to be ready to defend my people and the patients from harm. Our community had a lot of drug and alcohol problems and even the high school had an armed police officer walking the halls five days a week. Being prepared was always important. Hospitals have too many drugs and too few men around at night to protect the folks in the ER from drug seekers and other dangerous folks.
As a concealed carry doctor, I never thought about it from the aspect of seeing the results of violence. I have, however, considered the possibility that some folks might feel they would have something to gain by breaking into my residence. I have always worried about being burglarized. This is escalated by living in a rural state where drugs are a real issue, so folks want to get them or get money to get them. I also feel the medical profession is made up of folks that tend to be ambitious, conservative, eager to learn and grow, and don’t take well to others telling them what they can and can’t do. I was certainly brought up with the notion, if you want something, you have to go get it. The reciprocal of this is, I’m not going to give it up to some scumbag that doesn’t give a sh#t, and isn’t playing by the rules.
My CHL instructor expressed the same sentiments. Most of his initial students were in the medical or legal profession. One nurse in my class made commented that walking to her car at night was scary. (Her hospital is in one of the best areas of town, for what its worth.) Having taught a lot of health care professionals over the years, I can attest that these folks are intelligent and have solid reasoning skills.
Good article. As mentioned above, the upper echelons of the major medical organizations beat the ‘guns are health menaces’ drum, so it’s continually a pleasant surprise to see doctors and other health professionals exercising their 2A rights.
It is not about guns it is about control. That is why the IRS was put in charge of healthcare. Now, we move to Stalin’s: “If you don’t like me, or my state you must be crazy…” The only thing that really gets to these people is lampooning them.
It’s been my observation that there are very few medical professionals sitting on the fence. They’re either pro or anit, with the pros in the majority.
However, those in the profession who get exalted job titles seem to be in the anit clique. The spread of large health organizations (you may be surprised to learn your local doctor is actually a branch of a larger organization) tends to label a whole bunch of things as “health hazards”.
Great article Mas!
I have a question for you medical professionals reading this blog. How will you answer the question; “do you have a firearm in your home” when you go to your doctor.
Granted, the government already knows we have guns because we carry. I’m coming at this from the angle that our doctors may not know that we have guns and may at some future time be asked whether or not we are medically fit to own a gun. That can be very subjective, and to fight an incorrect decision could cost a lot of money.
Thanks
I agree with Mary Beth. And I don’t answer the questions I feel do not pertain to to my health care treatment. When asked my race, I fill in, “human.” The question of my gun ownership is off limits. When my kids were in school I told them to keep quiet about our guns as well. Teachers, especially public school NEA (Not Educating Anybody) member teachers have no need to know what I own. It is evident the liberals see our kids as a way to indoctrinate the next generation and pry into their parents private lives.
My wife works at a cancer research hospital so from time to time we socialize with medical professionals, or at least are included at some of their activities. It is interesting to sit and listen to them as they talk among themselves. A lot of them seem to think they are so much better educated (I suppose they are that) and informed than the rabble who surround them. I very nearly had to leave the room when one woman, an endocrinologist (married to an oncologist) went on and on, gushing over how wonderful it was to have met Hillary Clinton and how much she supported her and her agenda as the other docs at the table nodded their approval. My wife, sitting beside me, kept giving me terrified looks, thinking that any minute my restraint would be broken and I would erupt. But I was able to persevere in the face of absolute stupidity and elitist arrogance.
In fairness, there is one doc who is a retired Ranger qualified Army colonel who is a good guy with whom you can have a beer and discuss guns, as I have done. But he is a rare exception.
I’m glad the medical people here support and understand the need for self protection that is guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, but the sad reality is that there are many more out there who do not. Anyone remember Bill Clinton’s former idiotic Surgeon General Joycelin Elders who told us, “We need safer guns and safer bullets!” Or who once offered this bit of wisdom, “We all gonna die with sumpthin’ onna these days.”
Mary Beth, I believe you have struck upon a topic that will start to haunt those who exercise their 2A rights, in the not so distant future.
By bringing government control over healthcare in the U.S., Obama care, with it’s national data-base of our health care records, combined with enforcement by the I.R.S., at some point we will become subject to enforcement of bureaucratic policy that will over-ride constitutional rights. (think E.P.A. abuses, and of course the ever-present I.R.S.)
Already, those who use tobacco are hit with surcharges on their insurance premiums for an activity that’s frowned upon by the government. The government has long used the I.R.S. to regulate activities of the populace (what purchases that can be deducted, what purchases receive a tax credit, etc.). Coming this year, the penalty for not purchasing the government mandated minimum health insurance.
I can see a scenario developing that will punish gun owners with a tax penalty or health insurance surcharge for the “unsafe” act of having a firearm in your home or for subjecting children to hazardous conditions.
I can also see the bureaucrats deciding that the act of refusing to disclose gun ownership to your doctor, or lying about said ownership, would be a falsification of reporting under I.R.S. rules, to be prosecuted not in criminal court (where 2A rights could be invoked), but in Tax Court, where only I.R.S. rules and regulations are considered. Violations in Tax Court can result in very severe penalties (huge fines, incarceration).
Lately, it seems that those who would rule over us are more and more doing their deeds using regulatory authority rather than legislative laws. (think E.P.A. and lead projectiles in wetlands, etc.)
Nice article.
One point, though: where are all of these pro-rights doctors and nurses? I’ve been a nurse for 25 years and I’ve met 3 other nurses and 3 docs who aren’t anti-gun. The rest are either neutral or pull the old “it’s OK for _you_ to have a gun, but I worry about the _other_ people” crap.
Maybe it’s because I work in the operating room where all things are assumed (yeah I know) to be controllable and manageable.
I don’t know. I have offered, and will continue to offer, to take people to the range to give them a chance to fire a gun in a controlled environment. I’m not sure what else I can do.
On the other hand, my docs over the years have been more likely to ask, “What gun should I buy for my daughter?” or “What do you think my grandfather’s Luger is worth?”
Clearly, I have led a sheltered (or blessed) life…
My tendacy would be to tell the Dr. “NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS”!
However the wiser thing to say would be: “Why no, of course not, those things are dangerous”, which assuming the Dr. doen’t already know better, will keep you off any Government lists, and prevent the Dr. from sending you for any phyicalogical tests, or feeling his has a “Duty” to tell the Goverment that you are “Mentally Unfit” to own, or possess, firearms.
What they don’t know, most likely won’t hurt you, and your’s, in the future!
Mary Beth brought up a good point, I would answer my doctor truthfully with a “NO” if there are guns in my house because technically they are IN MY SAFE. Now if they ask if I have a safe in my house with guns in it then I would say yes. Doesn’t matter what kind of mousetrap they put out for us all they did was create a smarter mouse. This nonsense will never end The Cleveland Clinic Foundation insurance rates are based on Body Mass Index if that was the case at my hospital I would have to be 12′ tall not to be overweight! The point being is the double standards and ridiculous political correctness has to stop and common sense has to take over. The same laws that protect anti-gun folks choice not to own also protect me to. Vice President Joe Biden mentioned that Ukrainians have a right to defend themselves, I wonder if he feels the same way about the people who pay his salary. My opinion is it’s bad policy to politicize medicine, doctors are busy enough with diagnosis, treatment and prevention. Btw Mas I enjoy your articles and own several of your books, all good reads.
@Mary Beth Robinette
The health update survey form at my PCP’s office has that question. When I last went to her office, I either left that blank or wrote “n/a” (I don’t remember. When I got in to see my doc, she didn’t say anything and I didn’t volunteer.
@Mas
Of _course_ doctors asked you for firearm advice: you’re freakin’ Mas Ayoob. I would also be asking your advice if you were my patient. 8>)
PS: If you have kids, and go to a Family Dr., the biggest problem/Danger will be to Teach/Control what your kids will answer, if the Dr. asks them about the family firearms, so they won’t contradict what you have told the Dr., and undo whatever you decided to tell them about this facet of your family.
I noticed some poster’s seemed to have a hard time regarding fibbing to your Dr.’s firearms related questions. Just remember, you are being asked non-medical questions, to “Testify” against yourself, without being warned about your “Rights”, or due Process, or having an Attorney there to Safeguard you from doing, or saying, “Something Stupid”, that will certainly have later Governmental Violation of, and Subversion of, Your God Given, and Constitutionally Protected Rights!
Is you are unwise enough to willingly allow that to happen, simply because you are in your personal Doctor’s office, then I guess that you will richly deserve whatever YOU LET THE GOVERNMENT DO TO YOU, AND YOURS’?
NashobaLosa:
You must have a very unique S&W model 59 that can be left “cocked and locked” in your drawer. From what I understand, that pistol has a safety which decocks the hammer.
Mary Beth Robinette:
When a government lies to you constantly, feel free to lie to them or their representatives. Unless it’s under oath or to a LEO, who are allowed to tell you falsehoods as part of their ‘duty’, but it’s illegal to lie to them.
BTW, Moslems are encouraged by their holy book to lie to all non-Moslems.
Hey Folks,
Thanks for all the replies, there a lot of food for thought!
Some years ago I was providing medical coverage in a post cardiac surgery intensive care unit just before Christmas at the Washington (DC) Hospital Center. Things were slow so I went across the hall to the Shock Trauma unit. The trauma surgery was treating two patients for gun shot wounds. I ask him what was happening and he said “only three more shooting days till Christmas. On Christmas eve I wander there again and the same surgeon was treating three gun shoot wounds. He said that everyone was doing their last minute Christmas Shooting.
Another acquaintance told me about a medical center where police provided 24 coverage to the ER area where all the gun shots were admitted. He and several other physicians there carried guns should rival gangs show up to finish the job.
First line medical providers see gun violence in a different way than those who practice at the gun range and then post on the internet. Physicians on the whole are not anti-gun. Most of my physician friends own guns and are pro-gun. Those of us who are first line providers of emergency services something real to add to the discussion. What bothers me is that so many in the gun community are not prepared to listen especially if our story differs from their beliefs.
So often when a pediatrician asks about a gun in the home or someone comments about VA confiscation of gun due to inability to manage financial affairs they should sometimes ask themselves, “is there something not be said here.”
As Tom Gresham likes to say, “It’s OK to lie if the questioner is not entitled to the information they seek.”
My response to “Do you keep any guns in the home?”: “No. Do you think I should?”
I work in the medical community and me and most of my coworkers are heavily, heavily armed. The reason seems to be that we think they’re fun, not fear of criminals.
Geoff, you remind me of what comedian Stephen Wright said when he entered Canada from the U.S.
Their border patrolman asked, “Do you have any firearms?”
His reply, “What do you need?”
Dennis – I just returned to this thread and realized, that for the first time, I had failed to read one of your posts. Damn – I hate it when you’re so right. I feel I am an optimist, but sometimes (geezerhood creeping in?) when I see all the new, imaginative and different ways our rights are being threatened, I get depressed and feel we are doomed. I’ll read about one of their new moronic gimmicks – like the “bullet air bag” being tested in Ferguson – or the truly inspired Michael Bloomberg’s logic – begin to smile, only to learn of Bill Gates putting his mint to work against us and think – “who can beat that?” Where is OUR Daddy Warbucks? A level playing field is desparately needed. It would appear it’s up to us to build it – if we do, will they come?
Don-Pa, it seems here lately it is becoming harder and harder to be optimistic. My cousin shared the following with me last week.
” In the ’80’s we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have Barack Obama, no cash, no jobs, and no hope.”
It seems we are headed rapidly towards a country we won’t recognize. God has, throughout our history, sent us the right man, at the right time, to lead us back onto the right path, after we as a people have strayed. I have to believe He will again, but I also believe He expects us to do our part.
Dennis – I, too, have faith, a faith that some around me feel is empty – the faith that says God does indeed have a plan. This country, begun in such an unconventional manner against all odds by brilliant men, has gone through so many growing pains, has continued to succeed through the sacrifices of so many truly great, selfLESS human beings, is now being systematically weakened by so many selfISH boors, who “succeeded” by whatever means they could contrive – usually at the cost of ruined lives. That – and the sense of helplessness, is what makes this current state of affairs so very hard to stomach. Whomever this “right man” is – I pray for his immediate arrival.
I’ve worked intensive care as a respiratory therapist for 30 years, most of which in a major trauma center. Yeah, I’ve seen it. This is what I clearly spelled out in my application for CCW this past year.
I’m a physician who was trained in the early 90’s. We were told to ask about weapons in the home, not for purposes of reporting to the government, but rather to discuss common sense safety. Now that I’ve been practicing about 20 years, I have never–not once–ever been instructed to ask about guns and told to report affirmative answers. We were also taught to ask about smoking, use of tobacco and alcohol, use of seat belts, bungee jumping, sky diving, sexuality, and other potentially risky behaviors. I suspect there are many paranoid pro-gun people who believe ANY question about their guns to be of malicious intent. Lie to me about gun ownership if you want, I can’t control that just like I can’t have you complete the antibiotic course I give. Understandably… sometimes paranoia is a good thing.
To the above commenter… The medical history question about race is pertinent to some treatment plans as there are different methodologies for treating certain diseases based upon race (blood pressure for one).
Not that it applies to anyone here, but too many of the homes in America have parents who keep firearms in crazily kid-accessible areas… not because they’re poor parents, but because they’ve never been told just how creative and resourceful kids can be when it comes to finding/opening hiding places.
I would conceal carry if not for the fact my employer’s facility is on a military base and carrying a weapon there would be a felony.
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