“No fly = no buy?” Sounds good and even logical on the surface, until we realize that there are profound due process issues which go far beyond firearms possession. See http://joshblackman.com.
Former President Bill Clinton, still kept safe by a phalanx of bodyguards carrying .357 SIGs with still more serious firepower readily available, tells us law-abiding citizens returning fire on a mass murderer would have just made things worse. What exactly is Bill Clinton’s expertise on shooting? Would it be the time when he was pretending he supported the Second Amendment, which he apparently thought was about duck hunting, and he had some small and debatable part in the assassination of a duck? (I think “assassination” is the word when something is killed for political reasons.)
A New York reporter tries an AR15 for the first time, and is so horrified he thinks he has PTSD. (Apparently, he knows as much about Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder as he does about semiautomatic firearms.) Hilarity ensues, with this from our friend Larry Correia doing the best send-up I’ve seen yet on that reporter’s work.
And this young woman brings us a refreshing breath of logic, too.
The worst part of the “no fly” list is the large number of false positives. The late Senator Ted Kennedy was an example.
Bill Clinton might be dumb enough to start shooting when he couldn’t identify his target. The rest of us know better. I doubt that the Secret Service would indiscriminately hose down the crowd if a bad guy opened fire after the lights went out.
Somebody should hand the reporter a heavy double rifle, like white hunters used to use in Africa, so that he learns what it’s like to shoot a “real” gun.
In the previous blog, I made the point that both Radical Islam and our current crop of gun control fanatics represented “Oppressive Ideologies”. I explained the two characteristics of oppressive movements.
However, I can cut it even finer. The key characteristic of an oppressive ideology is intolerance. For example, what separates a religious Muslim from a radical Islamist? It is simple. The religious Muslim is tolerant. He might not approve of other religions. He might think that Christians and Jews have it wrong. However, in the end, he knows that the choice of religion is a personal path to God that it cannot be dictated by another. So, he is tolerant of other religions.
The radical Islamist is absolutely intolerant. From his point of view it is “my way or the highway to hell and I’ll send you there”. He does not tolerate other religions. Instead, he dehumanizes members of other religions, calls them infidels and then, as the Nazis did to the Jews in their death camps, moves to kill them off. It is convert or die as far as he is concerned. His lack of tolerance is the difference between a peaceful Muslim and a suicide bomber.
The left-wing gun-grabbers like to claim that they are tolerant but that is a LIE. They are only tolerant of the views within the accepted left-wing world-view.
When it comes to guns and the NRA, they are as intolerant as the most crazed Islamic Zealot that ever lived. Their goal is to write their intolerant position on guns into law. To criminalize gun-ownership. Then it will be the same as with the radical Islamist. It will be convert or our law will throw you into prison and confiscate your guns and other property.
That is why I name the gun-grabbers as an Oppressive Movement and compare them with the Radical Islamist. They both share the key trait of “Intolerance”. Note that it is not the NRA that is saying “convert or go to prison”. The NRA is not forcing anyone to own guns against their will. The NRA is actually the tolerant group. It is the intolerant gun-grabbers that are the fanatics.
As for this New York Reporter Kuntzman (a name I find oddly appropriate), I find his statements ridiculous. A .223 bruised his shoulder and stunned him with its report!?!? A dad-blasted “poodle-shooter”? Sweet Mercy!
He needs to come over to my range for a session. I have a good rifle for him to shoot. It is a Ruger #1. He will like it since it is only a single-shot rifle instead of one of those nasty big magazine jobs. It is a nice politically-correct blued steel and walnut gun. Not one of those scary, black, assault weapon things.
Just one thing. It is chambered for the 450/400 Nitro Express cartridge (AKA .400 Jeffery). This means that it is capable of converting an African Cape Buffalo into lunch!
If he thinks a poodle-shooter is loud and hard-kickin’ just wait until he touches off my #1. It will given him an entirely new perspective on recoil. However, since the .223 gave him PTSD, maybe I better arrange to have an ambulance handy before he pulls the trigger!
Received my book, Mas. Thanks so much. Thanks to the 19,999 prior poster’s who made it possible.
Having read the New York reporter’s article, coupled with my general distrust in the veracity of the media, I found this response from the gun store’s owner.
https://www.facebook.com/doubletapshootingrange/posts/1146174612105699
It would seem the liberal/progressive “reporter” is no more truthful about his conversation with the owner of the gun-range/store as he was about the beating he took at the hands of the monstrously powerful AR.
Folks talk all the time about whether to talk to LEO’s after a confrontation, this story would suggest that you definitely should not talk to a reporter.
As for the “no fly/watch” list debate, heck, let’s go all the way. No gun purchases, no SSI, no food stamps-EBT, no voting, no driver’s license, no freedom of speech/religion, no search and seizure protection, etc. Why stop at guns?
Isn’t it amazing that when the 2nd Amendment was written almost all firearms were assault weapons.
You’re correct about the “No-Fly” list. It is full of false information, and correcting it seems to take a divine act of God.
I have a friend who was falsely put on that list. Amazingly, he was a fellow pilot for a very large airline. He could fly the plane while on a trip, but when he was off duty, he was prohibited from boarding the plane as a passenger so he could go home. He protested this nonsense for an extremely long time before he could get it resolved. His only crime was having a similar (but quite common) name. I’ve heard that the late Ted Kennedy had the same thing happen to him.
What bit by Larry Correia? You did give a reference or URL.
The gun-grabbers are so “smart”…….they are stupid!
“Your Honor, we have presented evidence that Mr. [name redacted] owns multiple assault weapons— surely far more than any one person might reasonably need for purposes of sport or self-defense— along with a large cache of ammunition for them, including “expanding hollowpoint” and “deep-penetrating” rounds— bullets so deadly that even our own military are forbidden by international law from using them! — bullets whose sole purpose is to maim and kill! On entering his residence, we found Mr. [name redacted] to be in possession of many thousands of these killer bullets.
Furthermore, Mr. [name redacted] has been shown to frequent websites dedicated solely to determining which firearms have the greatest “killing power”…. and has repeatedly expressed the opinion that citizens should not only arm themselves, but should carry two, or even three guns at all times…
Finally— and frankly, Your Honor, this is what most concerns us— Mr. [name redacted] has repeatedly made statements concerning people of the Muslim faith that any reasonable person would surely deem both offensive and hateful.
While granting that he has not technically violated any laws, we believe that the above evidence, when taken together and viewed in the proper light, suffices to suggest that Mr. [name redacted] may pose a significant danger to the public safety of the United States of America. Therefore we request that his name and other identifying information be entered into the National Terrorist Watchlist, and kept there until further notice…”
@ TN_MAN Says:
While I agree with Your comparison between Islamic Muslim Jihadist’s and the Liberal Democratic Political Gun-Grabber’s, I also read a very old Description of the difference between Moderate Islamic Muslims, and Radical Islamic Muslim Jihadist Terrorists, that I also agree with, and quoted below.
“The Militant Muslim is the person who beheads the infidel, while the moderate Muslim holds the feet of the victim”!
~ Marco Polo ~
I can’t say whether this is due to an agreement as to the requirements of the Islamic Koran, or simply “Fear” of what the Radical Islamic Muslim will to to the “Moderate” Islamic Muslim, and his Family, if he doesn’t “Hold the Infidel’s feet” while the Radical Muslim beheads the Infidel, or perhaps for some other reason?
I don’t know if I can take much more of this anti gun BS. Between the prez and his BS administration ,the anti gun congress critters and the stupid MSM it makes me want to crawl up the highest mountain and be a hermit.
Fist, yes, what about due process.
Next, Clinton (and VP Joe Biden). Amazing source of gun humor for those who know better. Sadly, many don’t.
Regarding Kuntzman, I saw this comment elsewhere (somehow I lost the writer’s name … apollogies):
“We fired M16’s in basic training with the buttplate against our noses……because RECOIL (lack thereof). This guy is totally FOS.
But, I’ll happily let him shoot one of my African doubles – say a .577 Kynoch if he wants to get a bruise. The newspaper can buy the ammo…”
And, Captain R O, sadly this is the current state of ignorance we are awash in today. It makes as much sense as telling pilots they cannot have a gun as it is too dangerous & they might be unstable or damage the plane … Like pilots don’t have a far more deadly tool at their fingertips (I don’t need to mention incidents like 9/11 or the Egyptian crash to this audience yet I do on the off chance some anti gunner reads this … they need help connecting the dotts).
Happy Father’s day to all.
How many people (including young men and women who had never handled any kind of firearm before) have trained and qualified with the M-16 or M4 rifle in the military? When I was in basic training, one of our instructors demonstrated the M-16A1 by firing it while holding the butt stock against his chin and against his crotch.
That NY Daily News reporter is either lying about his “PTSD,” or his picture should be in the dictionary next to the definition of “wimp.”
When Bush was president, liberals denounced the Patriot Act and its subsidiaries, the Terror Watch List and the No-Fly List. The Atlantic, New York Times, and ACLU all complained (with considerable justification) about the lack of objective standards and the lack of due process. They pointed out that anyone could be listed, for any reason, or for no reason. And that suspects remained on the list even after being investigated and exonerated.
Then Obama got elected, and the leftists suddenly learned to Stop Worrying and Love the List. Now the Atlantic and NY Times are editorializing about how “even suspected terrorists on the No-Fly List can buy guns.”
The Orlando shooter was never on the No-Fly List, or any other anti-terrorist watch list. Neither were the killers in San Bernardino, Ft. Hood, or the Boston Marathon. Not surprising, since the FBI and Homeland Security have been ordered not to spy on Muslims.
There were red flags in all of the above cases, but neighbors, co-workers, and employers were afraid to report anything, for fear of being called “racist” and “Islamophobic.” And it was Obama’s attorney general (not the NRA, not Donald Trump, and not the Tea Party) who, even after the San Bernardino massacre, threatened to “take action” against anyone who said anything that might be interpreted (or misinterpreted) as “anti-Muslim rhetoric.”
The director of the Human Rights Campaign said on MSNBC that the Orlando tragedy was the result of a “deranged individual taught to hate by a preacher on Sunday morning.” What!? The killer did not attend church on Sunday, he attended a mosque several times a week. And that mosque, the Islamic Center of Ft. Pierce, was suspected of having terrorist ties, but the FBI and DHS were obstructed from investigating it.
And it was Hillary Clinton’s State Department, not the NRA, who blocked the investigation.
The Atlantic theorized that right-wing Christian “anti-trans rhetoric” encouraged the killer. Of course, the imam’s speech in Orlando three months ago, saying that gay people should be executed, could not possibly have anything to do with it.
Obama and his cheerleaders (aka the media) are chanting their “NRA” and “AR-15” mantras to divert attention from the dhimmitude and political correctness that have been enabling crime and terrorism for years.
I wonder how much well arm civilian could have done???? There was A uniformed Orlando Police Department (OPD) officer working extra duty engaged creep, returning fire at him 2:02 a.m. out side club fail stop him from enter that night club not blame cop for stop him he was out gun fighting crazy creep witch very brave. Than came two additional officers who also began engaging creep at front door in fire fight with him. There some people going round say if they had firearm they could stop him well there where some well arm police that had trouble stop this creep with there firearms. Before some one say give creep way to much credit I am just state what facts are as they know them be right now witch can change . So far clear this guy did just walk in night club with concealed weapon he came shooting in club with firearms he took with them was shooting at policemen before even got in night club in parking lot. It seem very clear creep was very dangers person he was shooting out with cops before he even got in night club. He came very close killing swat cop who took round right in front of Kevlar helmet been just few inch lower been he been shot in forehead. Speaking of Swat it took well arm Swat team take creep out. Ready read full story this event when got all fax to it Massad Ayoob you can make some bull shit go away. Like Rachel Maddow MSNBC story claim SIG Sauer MCX rifle creep use was extra dangerous weapon because had folding stock because Sig Sauer advertise market as better rifle than average Ar15 use.
Thanks for the catch, Ron Rogers. That is now fixed.
Simple put ready learn how unfold down road when politics of dies down more facts what really happens come out give much clear picture events that happen with it with out all politics of it get in way . Right now I feel being used as political foot ball against gun owners buy ant firearms establishment push gun control on ever body as reasonable answer what both political party’s can do about this events as answer . The plain absolute ugly truth no proof at all that gun control well ever stop this kind events. Simple truth you can only stop homicidal person with gun who has intent kill with out kill them with gun to. Some time go Massad Ayoob report that there’s no right to bear arms in Israel country has very strict regulation of civilian gun ownership. Yet two Palestinian gunmen opened fire on patrons at the Max Brenner Cafe in the Sarona Market in Tel Aviv, killing four people and injuring seven others before they where killed them self buy police. Go show this event do happen even in country have strict regulation firearms.
@James Patrick:
An armed citizen might have made a difference. Suppose that, while this terrorist murderer was taking cover in the doorway and engaging the cop outside, an armed citizen came up behind him and put a 9mm into the back of his head? In this event (which, I admit, is best case), the only one to die would have been the terrorist.
One can play “what if” games forever. The fact is, by Florida Law, this nightclub was a gun free zone so the armed-citizen option was taken off the table right from the beginning. My own point of view is that I would rather be armed and have a fighting chance than to just die helpless like a slaughtered sheep.
@Paul Edwards:
The Muslim who “holds the feet” does not me my standard of tolerance. He is just a different flavor of radical Islamist. There are always those who, when faced with an Oppressive Movement, choose to collaborate rather then stand up to the injustice that they see.
A lot of Germans were not officially Nazis yet they had some knowledge of what was happening with the holocaust. They remained silent, often out of fear for themselves, rather than stand up to Hitler.
You can see the same dynamic at work in the middle-east today by those who think ISIS goes to far but lack the courage to say so.
Political enemy=terrorist. NRA= Terrorist. Then after they take away guns from their political enemies, they will take them away from their friend to consolidate power. History lesson: Stalin stashed enough guns, gernades, mortars Ect. to have stopped Hitler some ten years before WWII. He grew so paranoid, that he had the NVKDMVD (KGB), shoot everybody who knew where the stuff was so they did not use it against him! Anything and everything they said is, just slight of hand and smoke and mirrors to distract you from their real goals.
ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/
noun
lack of knowledge or information.
This is what has America in the shape it is in today. People make uneducated decisions not only on guns but politics. Every 4 year we go vote for President and it like we have to choose from the less of 2 evils or it well this poison will make you very sick and this one will kill you after a long time of suffering. With all that Hillary Clinton has hanging over her head how can anyone that has half a brain want someone like her in office? I swear most people are like chickens they wake up in a new world every day. If Donald Trump would just figure out that he will be a part of our system in Government and tone things down a little he would have a walk in the park and be elected. Look how the GOP is acting, like a bunch of Middle Schoolers. Make you just what to slap the SHIT out of our elected Officials and tell them to come back to the real world.
Just like Obummer and his bullying. I will take away your funding if you don’t do thing my way. Answer me this? How can a sitting President who doesn’t have the power to do a lot of things he has down get away with it. This is just an example the bathroom gender Obummer said he would cut funding from schools if they tried to over ride his decision. Those funds he said he would cut off are Title 9 funds that Congress passed as a law so the School System would receive them. If a few of our Senators would have stood up and explained to him he couldn’t do that and if he did his impeachment papers would be waiting on him the next day we would have had less problems out to this man than we have had to endure over the past 8 years.
ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/
noun
lack of knowledge or information. This is what we have got to over come here in this country over many many things. But we just keep preaching to the choir, every time I talk to any one who leans to the dark side and explain things as simply as I can it does no good what so ever because people today make to many decisions on how they feel and not how they will effect us and most important if they aline with the standards we as a Country have set into place our Constitution. It seem that people have forgotten we are a Constitutional Republic meaning the Constitution holds all the power not a President, not Congress, not the Supreme Court, not even We The People. If everyone goes to work tomorrow and decides they are going to just do what they want to and not what the company hired them to do and if the management doesn’t enforce the standards of what is expected out of it’s employees how long would that company last? That is where we are at in this country the management We The People have let our employees our elected Officials just do as they please now our company the United States of America is falling apart.
Bill and Hillary Clinton are so full of shit you can smell them 5 miles away and both are crooked as a dogs hind leg. How can we get the people to see this? Donald Trump is going to have to get off the pedestal he has placed himself on and figure out he needs the rest of the system of our government to make this Country Great Again. Why is it that something so simple to fix is so complicated? ((((( ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/
noun
lack of knowledge or information))))
On a Facebook post warning everyone to stop hating homosexuals I pointed out that Obozo and the Usual Suspects are blaming guns, Republicans, intolerance and everything except the real cause of the Orlando shooting: a radical, registered Democrat (that is not intended to be pejorative, he was) Muslim terrorist.
My post was promptly deleted by Facebook.
The forces against us are large, well funded and well organized.
We must be as well.
I received the below link this morning, from an old USBP Classmate of mine, as well as a retired Customs Intelligence Analyst, showing prior connections, between the Orlando shooter’s Father, a strong Taliban supporter, the Obama White House, as well as Hillery Clinton’s State Dept., and other Congressmen, and Senators, in Washington DC!
Very interesting, and suspicious?
“Orlando Killer’s Father Held Meetings At The White House …
downstreampolitics.com/2016/06/15/orlando-killers-father-held-meeting…
5 days ago – Seddique Mateen, father of the Orlando killer and outspoken supporter of the Taliban, has also been a guest at Obama’s White House”.
Well, I went to the range this morning to exercise my Second Amendment Rights.
I also wanted to re-shoot my Ruger #1 in .400 Jeffery caliber. I had recently installed a “Limb Saver” recoil pad on the gun in place of the factory Ruger pad.
it seems to me that the amount of recoil is still the same. However, the new pad is “squishier” (technical term) and seems to protect the shoulder better. I sure wish Mr. Kuntzman could have been along to take a shot.
I was shooting my favorite handload consisting of 82 grains of Reloader 19 under a 400 grain Hornady DGX bullet. This rifle really likes this load. Unfortunately, I can never seem to string five good shots together from the bench. I always end up flinching a bit and pulling one or two shots.
Today was no different. I put up a target a 100 yards and started shooting. I put 3 shots right into the bullseye. These 3 shots made a group that measured 0.46 inches center-to-center. Then I pulled the number 4 shot high. It opened the group up to 1.2 inches. Worse yet, on the 5th shot, I pulled it way, way out to the high right. The group opened up to a huge 1.72 inches.
These last two flubs were totally my fault. I would not dream of blaming the rifle or the load. One of these days, I am going to succeed in putting all 5 shots into a good group with no flinched or pulled shots.
If I can do that, I fully believe that this rifle can do a group that is 3/4 inch or less. Plenty good enough for Cape Buffalo! 🙂
Sorry about the bad link:
http://downstreampolitics.com/2016/06/15/orlando-killers-father-held-meetings-white-house/
Above is a good link, I think?
@ TN_MAN Says:
I agree with you there too, but when people/Government Official’s wonder why they Almost NEVER hear/learn about these Tragic Islamic Muslim Jihadist Terrorist ATTACKS, IN ADVANCE, IT IS THESE SO-CALLED “MODERATE ISLAMIC MUSLIM’S”, WHO KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN, BUT WOULD RATHER PROTECT THE JIHADIST TERRORIST, INSTEAD OF TELLING THE POLICE/FBI, OR OTHER AUTHORITIES, AND SO NOT RISK THE TERRORIST’S REPRISALS AGAINST THEMSELVES, OR THEIR FAMILIES!
PS: Origin of Islam:
According to Secular History
The origin of Islam can be traced back to 7th century Saudi Arabia. Islam is thus the youngest of the great world religions. The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D. after experiencing what he claimed to be an angelic visitation. Muhammad dictated the Qur’an, the holy book of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the preexistent, perfect words of Allah.
If Islam has existed, and Prospered, for around 1,500 years now, you can bet that they “Keep a Pretty Tight Rein” on their Believer’s, Radical, Moderate, or Otherwise!
That is why even the “Moderate” Islamic Muslim’s WILL NOT INFORM ON THE RADICAL MUSLIM’S PLANS AS TO WHEN, AND WHERE (IN A “GUN FREE ZONE, OF COURSE), THEY PLAN TO CARRY OUT THE NEXT MASS KILLING!
Liberals would be overjoyed if “No Fly = No Buy” became law as their Dear Leader can then immediately put all members of the NRA and other firearms rights organizations on the “Terror Watch” and “No Fly” lists, thus quickly denying millions of American citizens their Second Amendent rights without going through Congress and any pesky legislation process. What was the old saying about the camel’s nose poking into the tent?
TN_Man:
I agree with you completely. I too have a Ruger #1 in .450/400 3″ which I load with Hornady 400 grain DGX bullets. I’m waiting for Ruger to come out with their #1 in .470 N.E. or even better, in .500 N.E.
Mas,
It seems, at least at the moment, that AR platform rifles/carbines are at the center of the “gun control controversy”. I think it would be an interesting and informative discussion if the followers of this blog discussed defensive rifles they have, other than AR’s. The pro’s and con’s and why of these “other than AR” choices. Why they chose them, why they believe they fit the intended use.
I bring this up, not to stray from topic, rather, at your direction, as a possible future blog topic.
Headline: ‘
“E-COLI OUTBREAK KILL HUNDREDS, SICKENS THOUSANDS”
( traced to lettuce coming out of Mexico)
Trump Campaign: “We need a temporary halt to the importation of lettuce from Mexico until such time we can be sure there is no chance of more contaminated produce coming into our country. We should then attack this scourge and destroy it at it’s source”.
Clinton Campaign: “All these outbreaks in the past, and this event in question, can be traced to one thing,– ‘salad forks’–. Our founding fathers never intended for us to have eating utensils capable of ingesting deadly toxins in such massive quantities and such a short time. I have instructed my staff to contact my courageous Democratic colleagues in the congress to push for the immediate ban of all ‘salad forks’ from American society. Of course those evil Republicans will push back against this obvious solution, caving in to those lobbyist from the silverware industry”.
Obama administration: We refuse to use the term describing the pathogen involved, as that would only serve to denigrate a whole group of germs and viruses that are so beneficial to the quality of our daily lives. To do so would only serve to encourage potential pathogens that are straddling the fence to become lone wolf attackers”.
Loretta Lynch: “I have redirected 50% of our available FBI agents to scrub all references to deadly pathogens from our training manuals and prior investigative reports, as those references do nothing for the security of our country, and could be hurtful to the psyche all the good germs so beneficial to our way of life”.
And we wonder why Russia, China, Iran, and the Islamic State, believe that now might be the time to take the U.S. down.
Not at all surprising, really, that a reporter in New York would write such garbage. Was it the Daily News or the NY Post that published the names and addresses of gun permit holders? Can’t recall, but both papers are left-wing rags.
Oddly enough, when I mentioned that particular reporter’s comments to my wife, who was born and raised in NYC (upper West Side, even!) she agreed that that guy was a textbook example of a liberal puss.
Dennis,
I like milsurp rifles because of their durability. I found a very reasonably priced, sporterized 6 x 55 Swedish M94 carbine built in 1917, with a 17.7 inch barrel (and an import extension to make it over 18 inches) and a decent, vintage Japanese 4x scope. This gem is at least a little more lethal than a .30-30 carbine, and significantly more powerful than the various 5.56 case mods like .30 AAC, 6.5 Grendel, etc. It gives me a very effective, low-budget dueling firearm if I get in a long-range mix-up out in the open, and is an adequate bear deterrent. It also inspired me to get a 6.5 Grendel one of these days, anyway, but is at least a partial solution to a Boston Tea Party scenario.
I see that the 6.5mm Grendel is actually based on a larger case head than 5.56, and therefore requires a bolt different from the standard 5.56 AR. From studying various reviews on different AR calibers, however, I am leaning toward the 6.5 Grendel with the idea that is a very hard hitter, while not beating up the action too much. I also like the idea of being able to hand load for both 6.5 x 55 Swedish and 6.5 Grendel with the same bullets.
Bolt actions have certain advantages, but as Maineprepper so effectively pointed out, there is no substitute for firepower in combat. And I previously neglected to mention that “Boston T. Party” is a certain author’s pseudonym.
There have been some comments on the use of the term “Poodle-Shooter” to describe .223 caliber weapons such as AR-Style Modern Sporting Rifles.
Jeff Cooper sometimes used this term and it came up when I quoted him. However, I don’t think that Jeff Cooper created it.
My understanding (maybe I’m wrong?) is that the term originated with varmint hunting. The No. 1 varmint target for many shooters is the Prairie Dog. To be cute, some varmint hunters took to calling these critters “Prairie Poodles”.
Therefore, the term “Poodle Shooter” developed as a name for a varmint rifle chambered in a caliber suitable for hunting Prairie Dogs. One class of firearms heavily used for this purpose is the high velocity .22 caliber rounds (.222, .223, .22-250, etc.).
Therefore, when Jeff Cooper called these .223 chambered AR-Style rifles “Poodle Shooters”, he was making reference to the fact that he considered the .223 REM round most suitable for varmint size animals. I suppose that he felt that it was too small of a caliber and too underpowered for medium game (like Whitetail or Mule Deer) and, based upon his writings, he certainly considered it underpowered as a military caliber.
My own view is that “it depends”. We have much better bullet designs today than we did in Cooper’s time. I think that the .223 REM is adequate for medium game if (a) the range is kept modest – say under 150 yards, and (b) one of the modern bullet designs suitable for heavier animals is used.
Clearly, the .223 REM can and has been used as a military round for decades. However, many knowledgeable sources indicate that it rapidly looses its effectiveness as the rifle barrels become shorter and the range becomes longer.
Two officers (one a combat vet), armed with ARs, were actually inside the club preparing to engage the shooter within minutes of the event starting. They were told to stand down because they didn’t have the right tactical gear.
http://taskandpurpose.com/ill-advised-stand-order-cost-lives-orlando/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tp-today
That E Coli scenario is the best analogy I’ve seen for the current political situation.
Re: home defense rifles, the AR-15 would have certain advantages for veterans (who would already be familiar with its manual of arms), and also for people who have no previous experience with weapons (light weight, low recoil, low noise).
I would hesitate to own or recommend one, though, because it has been demonized by the politicians and the media. Surviving the shoot-out is Problem One. The legal aftermath is Problem Two. And a prosecutor or a plaintiff’s lawyer could portray you as a crazed Rambo wanna-be because you used a “high powered military-type assault weapon.”
I would rather have a Ruger Mini-14, or a pump action Remington 7615, or even a .22 rimfire autoloader like a Marlin Model 60 or a Ruger 10/22.
Of course, any weapon could be demonized, but I do not want to make it any easier for the opposition than it already is.
TN_MAN,
This ad from 1963 (at least 3 years prior to the military’s first large purchase of the full auto version) might interest you and others following the “weapon of war”-“no one needs an AR15 for hunting” arguments coming from the left.
http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7m4sdIZD91qalxk8o1_1280.jpg
Seems that Colt was marketing the AR 15 as a hunting rifle before the military became serious about making the full auto version available to troops.
Don’t worry about using an AR-15 type rifle because the anti-gun weenies will incorrectly demonize it as an “Assault Weapon”. Some liberals back in the 1700’s probably demonized muskets as too warlike because they are faster to reload than rifles and fired larger projectiles than .36 caliber Kentucky and Pennsylvania rifles. Use the weapon most appropriate for the mission regardless of what others think. I would refrain from using selective fire guns, and short barreled rifles and shotguns though as they are not mainstream enough to easily defend in court, given that most of the population (jurors) are not well informed about these firearms to understand they are not any more deadly or effective than most non-restricted weapons.
@tc:
I agree that, for home defense, an AR style rifle can have the advantages of relatively light weight and low recoil. If loaded with soft varmint-type bullets, it also has the advantage of low penetration. It would be unlikely to completely penetrate an intruder nor would it be likely to penetrate a bunch of interior or exterior walls. It would probably start to break up inside the first wall it hit even if it was only sheet-rock. This is good for an urban environment.
However, I disagree with your suggested advantage of “low noise”. The .223 is a high pressure rifle round. It has a lot of muzzle blast. If fired inside a building, it would sound like a cannon and could easily damage unprotected hearing.
So, unless your home defense AR-style rifle is fitted with a suppressor, it definitely WILL NOT offer the advantage of low noise.
As for the issue of “Problem Two”, that depends a good deal upon where one lives. I live in a “Castle Doctrine” State so I doubt that the use of this type of rifle would be a significant factor unless there were other issues involved that made it seem like something other than a “clean shoot”.
Dennis:
First I’ll discuss the defensive rifles I would like to have, and then I’ll mention the ones I actually have.
I don’t think I would need to fire past 100 yards, so my defensive rifles would just have iron sights on them. My first choice would be an SA 58 from DS Arms. That is what they call their FN-FAL in 7.62 NATO. John Farnam says they are reliable. I also like the fact that the bolt handle is on the left side. I like the idea of giving my left hand something to do. My second choice for a defensive rifle is an M1-A, (also in 7.62 NATO, for newbies).
What I actually have are shotguns to use as muskets out to 50 yards or so, and bolt-action rifles to use beyond 50 yards. I have two Mossberg 590 pump-action shotguns. I fire slugs through them. Since the barrels are smooth-bores, that makes me think of them as modern muskets. I try to buy slugs (12 gauge) loaded to 1200 fps. Slugs loaded to 1600 fps are just too much power! I have shot slugs loaded to 1560 fps, and they seem fine. As a civilian, I could face a threat alone, without back-up. The thought of hitting goblins with 12-gauge slugs is comforting. Hopefully, once hit, the goblins would not fire back at me. If I used an AR-15 against goblins, I would shoot them perhaps six or seven times. That might look bad to a judge. With the slug guns, I can say, “Hey Judge, I only hit him once! I didn’t want to kill anybody!”
For threats beyond 50 yards, I have two Ruger M77 Hawkeye bolt-action rifles chambered for .30-’06 Springfield. One has a fixed 4-power scope on it, and the other has 3x–9x variable scope, that I leave at 6-power. These rifles only hold 4 cartridges. They would be better employed as sniper rifles, but that is what I have for defense beyond 50 yards.
My shotguns and rifles don’t look too scary to politicians, except they are all black, and I do have an M7 bayonet for the shotguns. Some readers might think I should be able to use the slug guns out to 100 yards. Yeah, but I might not have a bench rest, the target may be in motion, it may be dark, and I may be worried about how all of this will look in court. That is why I down-play my shooting ability. Also, who knows if I will have good ammo or junk?
For a bugout vehicle I would like a half-track with quad .50-cal machines guns on the back, or maybe a mini-gun on it. What I actually have is a Toyota Corolla. When the current tires wear out, I will put snow tires on it and leave them on year round. I don’t want to ever bug out, but that is my current transportation should the occasion arise.
Mas,
This got me thinking of all the well written articles, by you and others, that I’ve read concerning the .357 SIG. I never fancied myself having to shoot through glass, doors or other barriers before, but this new terrorist threat has had me wonder about the benefits of a long slide .357 SIG, ala the P320, as a caliber worth considering when the rifle is not close at hand.
Thoughts?
How Well do Islamic Muslim’s Assimilate into the Culture’s of any/all Countries they may Immigrate too?
Read this, and YOU too, will “Want to BAN” All Islamic Muslims, and their Mosques, the Centers,and sources, of all Islamic Jihadist Activities in Non-Muslim Countries!!
Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.
Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.
When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.
Here’s how it works.
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States — Muslim 0.6%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1.8%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — Muslim 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrases are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. — Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’
It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.
The children attend madrases. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.
Today’s 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world’s population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world’s population by the end of this century.
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat
This is scary. Here is some serious reading for serious thinkers.
Now that you know, what we will do with this knowledge?
The below Link will take you to the source of this information:
http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/2013/06/03/muslim-behaviorterrorism-correlated-with-population-size/
Paul
Nick L., the .357 SIG’s high velocity makes it a flat-shooting gun that allows very good accuracy at longer ranges from a service pistol so chambered. With 125 grain hollow points such as the Speer Gold Dot, it has proven to be a decisive fight-stopper and early fears that it would over-penetrate a combatant and endanger bystanders have not come to pass.
Doubletap Ammunition: 40 S&W
Bullet : 125gr. Barnes TAC-XP Lead Free
Ballistics : 125gr. @ 1390fps / 536 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0″bbl)
1295fps 468 ft/lbs from a 3.5″bbl.
1445fps 580 ft/lbs from a 4.5″bbl.
An effective alternative to the Speer 357sig 125gr GDHP???
Very similar velocity and greater frontal area.
Paul Edwards: Some estimates of Muslim population in the U.S. are already running from 3 to 5%. Check out infowars.com as well as your local schoolteachers.
@Two-gun Steve Says:
Won’t doubt that, for a second.
Their Birth rate is so large, I’ve they will be the voting majority in America, very shortly?
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