Comments

ANOTHER TRUTH IN JOURNALISM MOMENT — 29 Comments

  1. It doesn’t look like they’re posting signs (which in Texas have to be huge, but you can also ask orally without posting the sign), but instead instructing their employees to tell customers who are openly carrying that they have to return the weapon to their vehicle or they won’t be served. See the following which also includes a link to what claims to be their instructions to their employees:

    http://iotwreport.com/whataburger-issues-directives-to-employees-regarding-firearms/

    The letter issued by their CEO says that they expressly allow concealed weapons and that, indeed, their CEO is a CCL holder:

    http://whataburger.com/company/pressreleasedetail/whataburger-addresses-open-carry-policy

  2. PS: The instructions to employees, if they’re genuine (and they may or may not be), contradict what the CEO’s letter says. The CEO’s letter says, “we don’t restrict licensed concealed carry but do ask customers not to open carry in our restaurants” but the instructions to employees say, “While it may be legal to openly carry these weapons, in order to provide a safe environment and protect our team members and customers, Whataburger does not want weapons inside our restaurants.” The difference could simply be sloppy drafting, of course, since they’re not putting up the signs needed to prohibit concealed carry.

  3. I for one don’t see the need to openly carry. If a robbery is about to take place, your openly carried gat just makes you a target.

    I AM happy that In IL the Gov. Just signed a law so that our ccw permit is just as good as our FOID card. ( one less card to carry) We can purchase guns and ammo with just our ccw. Also, when driving into a parking lot to enter a building where guns are forbidden, you no longer have to unload your piece before securing it in the vehicle or trunk. Hallelujah!

  4. Unbelievable! I can’t believe an editor let those phrases stay in the article! He or she could have even claimed they were saving ink, and money, by shortening that sentence. Also, it’s great that such an obscure historical fact has been printed. I’ll bet most gun owners are unaware of the origin of laws which infringe upon the Second Amendment. It was news to me in the last few years.

    We can see how the Second Amendment was infringed. After the Civil War, laws were written to keep guns away from freed blacks, and maybe young white men who couldn’t hold their liquor. It was understood that the laws would only be applied to certain types of people, not gentlemen. That generation died off, and the next generation read the laws, and interpreted them as applying to everyone. Crime had gone down, and respectable wives encouraged their respectable husbands not to carry those dirty guns around anymore. They weren’t needed, or so it was thought.

    It appears that the liberals do not control every newspaper in the country. Somehow their curtain of darkness failed to cover up this ray of sunshine.

  5. Unfortunately!!!! Open carry often causes a number of people to be uncomfortable.
    I’m not saying that there is never a time when open carry is appropriate. But in order to present a positive gun environment “we gun people” need to use discretion
    and “sometimes” not push the issue.
    Years ago it was common for people to grow up with guns around the farm or if your family was one generation removed from a farm guns were familiar with your parents and that was passed along. I know of a number of people that took guns to
    school so they could hunt on the way home. Our society has changed and we need to bring people to “guns” in a positive way, we need to educate them.
    You attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar (a scary challenge).
    I understand the desire/frustration with all the attempts to grab our guns. I’m
    very upset “often” myself! However, what we WANT is safe progress, we don’t need to create animosity.

  6. I haven’t seen any signs at the Whataburger outlets I frequent here in Texas. They won’t even be needed until January 1, 2016 when the open carry law becomes effective. I also didn’t see any “open letter” on the Whataburger web site. It may be posted on the corporate Intranet site that does not allow public access.

    I think that this policy has not been really made officially public yet, but the mainstream media couldn’t wait to do their little Happy Hamster Dance. Maybe Whataburger is letting them “leak” this policy decision so that they can gauge the amount of blowback from the carry community before committing to it in public.

    This decision will cost them revenue. I guess they decided that they will lose less by banning open carry than allowing it. In any case, they will lose customers.

    Me? I always use the drive through.

  7. That is a little surprising given that the law doesn’t take effect until September. It is also a little disappointing considering Whataburger is one my “go to” late night dining spots. From what I understand, it won’t affect concealed carry unless they decide to be gun-free. That would cost them a lot of business in my area.

  8. When I was serving in the military in AZ back in 1977 and 1981, we openly carried M1911A1 45 ACPs everywhere when off duty. Open carry was the norm, not the exception, south of Tucson near the border with Nogales, Mexico. When asked by anxious strangers, “Why are you carrying that gun?”, here were my stock answers, uttered calmly and politely as I smiled:

    1. “For the same reason police officers do. Enjoy your day.”

    2. “Because you’re not carrying one. Enjoy your day.”

    3. “For the same reason that I carry a pistol and a rifle during my daily military service as an Army Officer to defend our resilient Republic. Enjoy your day.”

    4. “To protect my loved ones from violent criminals until police are able to respond to my call for emergency assistance. Enjoy your day.”

    Always be ready. Enjoy your day.

  9. I’d be more inclined to be uncomfortable around said employees and customers and people like Preston Atkinson who would sell our liberties for a few bucks. Glad there’s no Whataburgers around here, to damn pc for me.

  10. Although the announcement I read indicated they would still allow concealed carry, a few folks were suggesting a boycott. Sorry, but I will NOT be one of them (as they have an absolute right to determine who does what on their property). I will continue to support them, even if they put up 30.07 signs – and especially if they continue with signage such as the one I saw Sunday night on the drive thru window on NASA Parkway. Just below an American flag: “One nation, under God, indivisible.”

  11. I had to read it several times.

    It can be taken 2 ways: the prohibition disarmed former Confederate soldiers and consequently freed slaves

    Or

    The prohibition disarmed former Confederate soldiers and former slaves.

    Maybe my reading comprehension is lacking, but I wonder in which context was the statement published?

  12. Well, I guess they got what they wanted and what they deserved.

    If you start demanding “open carry”, there will be places putting up signs saying “not allowed”.

    There has been a movement for it here in Florida and I hope it dies. I do not want to see people walking around the street slinging their AR’S or AK’S. I have carried a gun for over two decades and I think it is just the most foolish thing to “advertise” you have a gun when you are out among the public.

    I do not put NRA or Second Amendment stickers on my car and do not show them when I leave my house. It reduces the chance of getting robbed and gives you a real “surprise” advantage if you ever have to defend yourself.

    On your farm or property, do what you want, among the public, try to be civil and remember NOT EVERYBODY IS A GUN PERSON!

    Jim

  13. When OC was passed here in Alabama, ‘No Open Carry’ signs started appearing around the state. One is in an eatery next to an indoor range. State rest stops also posted ‘NO Weapons Allowed’ signs.
    It’s no big deal to me; I bear arms every day, and have no need to advertise the fact.

  14. If in fact the letter is true I find it disgusting the CEO would require the employees to be the bearer of policy. Nothing like hiding behind your youngest, lowest paid employees while they take the wrath from irate customers, and you know there will be plenty. Seems to me it’s above their pay grade.

  15. Legally, I can see the point of open carry. Why forbid open carry while simultaneously allowing concealed carry? What is the legal basis for that?

    Nevertheless, tactically, I feel that open carry is foolish. It increases ones risk while offering no advantage over concealed carry. Open carry just (a) makes you a No. 1 target in case of trouble, (b) leaves you open to harassment by the anti-gun crowd, (c) makes you more vulnerable to false accusations that you “threatened” someone with you firearm and (d) makes you more vulnerable to being disarmed and shot with your own weapon.

    With all these downsides, why would anyone ever want to open carry assuming that concealed carry was also allowed? Just to “make a point” or “feed your ego”?

    I never open carry although it is completely legal here in my home State of Tennessee.

  16. I agree concealed makes more sense for all the reasons above and in you face open carry is counter productive. The flip side is the is a need for someone to open carry while the wait time for a CCW permit.

    The daughter of a friend about a year ago had man stalking her, Unknown until later, he had a history of battering an x wife . She and her mother got a restraining order bought handguns and received training. He was arrested for violating the restraining order and the extradited to another state on other criminal charges. The mother a daughter open carried while waiting their concealed carry permits to be processed.

  17. I am a member of Florida Carry, a Florida open carry organization. They do good work on firearms rights in general, as well as OC advocacy. While I would love to see OC pass here in Florida, I don’t believe I would OC personally. More likely, I would use OC as a safety net that would allow me to use some of the more comfortable Concealed Carry methods without having to worry about accidentally exposing my firearm (such as OWB under a cover garment).

    Supposedly, the problem with accidentally exposed concealed firearms was fixed a few years ago, but so far it doesn’t look like the “fix” is working as well as we want it to.

    Jim CARROLL, while I agree that I wouldn’t like to see the same kind of OC tom-foolery here in Florida like what happened in Texas. I don’t think that will happen here. Rifle carry is just as illegal here in Florida as open handgun carry. The Texas Rifle OC events were able to happen because rifle OC was legal there.

  18. One perspective from Constitutional Carry Arizona: Texas firearms rules have come a long way since I last lived there, in 1978. I didn’t realize then that Reconstruction was still keeping Texans from defending themselves. The tragic Luby’s Rapid Mass Murder event, and the successful political efforts of one incredibly courageous survivor, stand out in my mind as watersheds for effective, legal self-defense in the Lone Star State.

    I personally have stopped carrying a handgun directly on my person when driving, in case of a stop by a peace officer, in order to expedite the stop. I now generally conceal holsters, filled or not, in or out of the vehicle, to appease nervous folks. Never been to a Whataburger.

  19. While I respect everyone’s right to open carry, personally I would never open carry in public. It is for tactical reasons and having the complete element of surprise.
    I was employed as a police officer and our agency had a rule whenever carrying a firearm not in uniform it shall be concealed at all times. Were talking my entire career this remained in effect.

    I do see members of other agencies out in public while open carrying here in Florida and I can spot them a mile away even though their not in uniform some wearing tee shirts or polo shirt, so you are giving up your element of surprise if you so choose to carry in this fashion in open carry states.

  20. We should all call our Senators and Representative supporting military carry.

    As a Vietnam era Marine it disgusts me that Marines were not allowed the right to defend themselves at two locations. The bullet riddled recruiting station door and windows with a Gun Free Zone sign tells it all.

  21. I wholeheartedly support WB’s right to take the stance they are taking. They do not and most likely will not post a 30.06 sign which is required in Tx to prohibit concealed carry on private property. I will not open carry so this has no bearing on my decision to eat at WB. Concealed means concealed. Nobody has ever noticed my 1911 at 4 0’clock in my waistband.

  22. I live in AZ and in fact grew up here. It has been an open carry state/territory for a century or so. I don’t recall hearing about people being targetd by criminals for openly carrying. I have read a lot about people being targeted because the criminals beleived they were not armed though. I believe people openly carrying weapons are not targeted for the same reasons that LEO openly carrying are not attacked for their weapons and that gun stores are almost never held up by armed robbers. The criminals see the threat and want to go somewhere easier. I have been to local events, street fairs, swap meets etc where attendees and vendors were openly carrying. Saw some very nice guns and holsters, no signs forbidding it or people getting the vapors over it. The interaction with the police and sherriffs patrolling were along the lines of discussing the merits of various firearms. I didn’t see anyone toting a rifle or shotgun, but they are a pain to lug around unless making a political statement I guess.

  23. Stuart,

    I would pretty much guarantee, that if open carry comes to Florida and is only for handguns, some idiots will start carrying their favorite AR or AK with a SIG BRACE style of stock.
    You can be sure that will go over well with a population generally lacking in knowledge on firearms.

    I debated on a blog about open carry a couple of years ago and
    if you disagreed, you were attacked, not questioned, but called names, all the usual bully stuff.

    I am worried about the experience of police agencies with open carry for their uniformed officers having gun grabs. I believe it supports my opposition to open carry.
    When I went through RED MAN training, my service issue holster did not stop a gun grab by instructor in any way. He went for it and he got it.
    Since then, we have changed holsters.

    The fact that some supporters of open carry will not accept that people may feel uncomfortable with open carry on their property, at the school their kids go to, in the mall they shop is just considered heresy.

    One person told me that it was legal in Virginia, so I called a relative there and they said it is legal, but only the hill people do it. In the urban, populace areas, it is a quick way to get arrested or shot.

    I would be more willing to compromise on open carry, if they were required to use at least a Level II snatch resistant holster, but I probably hope in vain.

    Jim

  24. Matt, Jim Carroll: In the day before Constitutional Carry, even after CCW came in, Arizona has always seemed a comfortable open-carry environment, where open carry was frequent enough to seem like an automatic group-deterrent vs. criminals, not always just a one-against-the-outlaws situation. It seems that most of the people that used to open carry in AZ are now carrying concealed. My feeling is that the deterrent situation has changed, and that some open carry is a useful reminder to people who are thinking about perpetrating evil, and may have come to think that there may not be any automatic deterrent around.

  25. I listed the negatives concerning open carry in my previous post. It is only fair to list the positives. Open carry allows one to carry a full size handgun easily. I know a guy who open carries a full size 1911 all the time. That is not easy to do in the South with concealed carry. It was 94 degrees outside today and,when I went out, I carried a tiny 380 in a pocket holster. I sure was not going to use a cover garment!

    It is also possible that, since you are openly armed, thugs might go away and find someone else to rob. However, I am still doubtful that open carry would scare away more trouble than it attracts.

    In summary, I still feel that the negatives outweigh the positives. Plus, with open carry, you always have a few nut jobs that want to use it to exhibit themselves. We had one bozo who would dress up in camo and sling a sawed off AK-47 (with 30 round mag.) over his shoulder and go prancing through a city park just waiting for someone to complain to the cops. Then, when the cops showed up, he would whip out his handgun carry permit and other documentation to show that his AK was “technically” a handgun. He got his name in the local paper a couple of times which I am sure pleased him to no end!

    I have not seen him in the papers recently. Maybe the cops got fed up with his crap and got his license pulled? I hope so since he was not doing the CCW movement any favors.

    BTW, they are saying that the terrorist Abdulazeez also used a semi-auto AK-47 style rifle in his attack. We can expect the anti-gunners to go after “assault weapons” again. In my book, the picture of the “Gun Free Zone” sign with bullet holes all around it is worth more than a thousand words.