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AS THE INVESTIGATION CONTINUES… — 52 Comments

  1. I still contend, and have not heard proffered anywhere else but in my pea brain, if the shooter had instead focused his efforts on steady, aimed shots, perhaps in time with the music, he would have been able to ply more lethality than simply spraying the crowd and making himself known. Look at the video of how confused the crowd was even after the reality was known. He might not have had the injury count that he did, but he certainly could have upped his death number without panicking the crowd as quickly. Volume of fire will never approach the death count that accuracy of fire does. Ask any real sniper. if you factor in the volume of music and lack of communication within the crowd because of it, The death toll could could have been much worse.

    • Steven S Racer,

      Imagine a sniper, with a rifle equipped with a sound suppressor, a night vision scope and a flash hider. Might have been well nigh unstoppable.

      Remember the DC snipers who terrorized the District of Columbia area for three weeks in 2002? Imagine one sniper in each of the fifty states. Now imagine 10 snipers in each of the fifty states. That would almost bring this country to a standstill

      • Suppressors effectively function to suppress the muzzle flash as well as the muzzle sound signature. So, a separate flash hider would not be required.

        Note that, if the round is supersonic, there would still be noise created by the passage of the bullet. For shooting at long range, a supersonic projectile is far superior for placing hits on target due to less drop and less wind drift.

      • TN_MAN,

        Thanks TN_MAN. I should have known that a big suppressor hanging off the end of a barrel would also hide a muzzle flash. Duh! (or Doh! Homer Simpson).

        The crack of a supersonic bullet would probably be heard by those close to it, but if the music is really loud, that would go a long way to hide even that sound. In other words, it would take a while for people in the crowd to realize they were being sniped. The delayed reaction would obviously give the sniper more time to choose victims.

  2. What will happen from this event is that terrorists will list it as a valuable way to increase the number kill and create greater horror. Somehow 80 mass murder deaths this year has greater effect than the 11,000 from individual crimes or the over 20,000 suicides by gun. The latter two are the ones the will give the greatest return on the efforts spent to reform.

    In addition we should talk more about violence control rather than gun control.

  3. I wonder about report that writing on note pad were calculations for shooting from angle of hotel room window. I assume he already knew point of impact of his rifles at various distances, that is had rifles sighted in. If this was the case I think all he needed to do was run the Pythagorean theorem on a five dollar calculator plugging in height of hotel room and distance on the ground – “a” and “b” of theorem. Link to Pythagorean theorem.

    https://www.mathplanet.com/education/pre-algebra/right-triangles-and-algebra/the-pythagorean-theorem

    • I see that Recoil Rails seem to enable bump stocks. Anybody know of Recoil Rails on the Mandalay Bay weapons? Anybody have experience with or without?

  4. I’ve been noticing quite a few videos popping up showing differing methods to “bump fire” semi-auto rifles without installing a “bump fire stock” in the aftermath of Vegas. One involves placing your thumb through the trigger guard and hooking it into a belt loop and letting the trigger strike the back of the thumb to fire as the weapon is pulled forward with the support hand. The only common denominator for “full auto” simulation is to start with a what? Yes, friends, a semi-auto weapon. As momentum builds and consensus grows for regulations to prevent “conversions”, how long do you think it will be until it shifts to ban the common denominator?

    Better buy your speed loaders for your revolvers while you can. Somebody is sure to show these people a clip of Jerry Miculek putting rounds down range.

  5. If the left hates the 2nd amendment so much, there are methods described in the constitution to change it or to do away with it altogether. Until such a time, I wish they would leave it alone, and I wish the people who support it would quit negotiating with those who want to take it away from us. A simple no would be a better way to deal with those who want to take our freedom from us. Anything more is a net loss of freedom and once gone, it is almost impossible to get back.

  6. Setting aside the heated 2nd Amendment arguments, my feeling is the Las Vegas massacre likely was a terrorist attack and not the outcome of a lone nut. It was very well planned for a long time probably by a bunch of people; it was carried out in a spectacular fashion with high casualties; and it occurred in a city that is strongly associated with vice and dirty money. Such a venue can be linked with two previous choice terrorist targets in America: New York City and its global financial muscle, and Washington D.C. with its U.S. military and political centers. Whether the Las Vegas horror was caused by domestic or foreign terrorists matters little as the results arguably are the same.

    • Sir ,your scenario is the best one I’ve heard. It closely follows what i’ve been thinking. It was definitely done to place it on a grand scale. And there are evil financiers in this country and outside that have a destructive agenda for the US.

  7. As I noted in a previous post, if banning Bump-fire stocks and other similar devices is forced, it would be smart to link it to pro-gun legislation so that the result is a net gain for gun-owners.

    I, too, was rather disappointed by the public statements of the NRA which basically threw Bump-fire stocks (and their owners) to the wolves. Even if the NRA was willing to go along with some kind of legislative deal, it was stupid to telegraph this position with a public statement. This statement only encouraged the gun-grabbers. Oh boy (they thought), we have got the NRA on the run this time! It was perceived as weakness by the gun-prohibitionists.

    It truly needs to be understood that there can be no compromise with the gun-grabbers. All the talk in the MSM about “holding a dialog about guns” and “reaching a reasonable compromise” is the purest, unadulterated horse manure. The leftist ideology is based upon a worldview that sees all evils arising from social and environmental sources. The leftists have tagged firearms, in their minds, as “environmental sources of evil”. It is important to understand that this is not just a political position that is flexible and open to compromise. The leftists truly hate and fear firearms to the bottom of their souls. Their ideology tells them that FIREARMS HAVE TO GO!

    Therefore, the leftist will never honor any compromise or agreement that they make. They will not even feel guilty about lying and breaking their word given the evil nature (in their minds) of firearms. In their ideology, the noble end of getting rid of this environmental source of evil justifies any means that they need to use to achieve it. So, if they must lie, cheat, deceive, issue propaganda, use character assassination against their opponents, whatever, etc.; it will all be justified by their noble cause. In their minds, the ends justify the means.

    Therefore, there can NEVER be any reasonable compromise with the leftist. Their claim to want a compromise is merely a disingenuous tactic to further their anti-gun agenda. In truth, the political battle over gun control is a “Total War” that can only end in victory or unconditional surrender. To win the battle, gun right supporters need to build such a strong legal and constitutional frame-work that it effectively precludes any further gun prohibition measures. We need to build such a strong fortress that the gun-ban groups break apart upon it and sink. We must establish that gun-prohibition is as dead of an issue as alcohol prohibition.

    If we fail to “break” the gun prohibition movement, then it will eventually succeed. The 2nd Amendment will go down and, over time, the American People will be disarmed just like British have been disarmed. In other words, this fight will end in only one of two ways: Total victory for Gun Rights or near total disarmament of the American People. Those who believe that there is a “third way” that finds a reasonable compromise are deceiving themselves. The leftist ideology will never allow compromise and that means that we can’t allow it either.

  8. A great evil occurred in Las Vegas, but it is not the largest mass murder in U.S. history.
    Guns did not cause this incident.It was a carefully planned, well thought out plan. This is not the act of someone who had a mental breakdown. It was cold calculated well planned mission.
    The festival was not a target of opportunity. And one man could not have done it alone.
    Why did he stop? Why did he not keep going until the cops killed him. why did he allegedly kill himself.
    Why did no one around the hotel notice the huge amount of shattered safety glass.
    Is this an ISLAMIC ploy. get the U.S. disarmed for easy takeover. Like the japs noticed, there is a rifle behind every blade of grass.

  9. My guess is this was what they call a “pharmacological break.” It’s the under-reported side of mass shootings. They might speak of the need to keep guns out of the hands of the insane, but they don’t often speak of the medications used to treat the murderers. On rare occasions they might say a someone was “off his meds,” but they don’t mention how, in rare cases, “on his meds” can be even worse. My best guess is he was on one of the anti-depressants where they add the disclaimer, “If suicidal or homicidal thoughts occur, discontinue use, and consult a physician.”

  10. The ATF makes regulations based on legislation from Congress and signed by the President. The 1986 law passed by Congress stopped the sale of newly made full auto weapons to civilians. The ATF just enforces that law. Similarly, the ATF cannot suddenly declare bump stocks as automatic adapters. The current NFA law of 1934 describes an automatic weapon as a firearm that expends more than one round with a single pull of the trigger. ATF decided that bumpfire stocks, which only fire one round with each pull of the trigger are therefore legal according to existing law. For bumpfire stocks to be made illegal, a new law would have to be passed. Which is ridiculous because any semiauto rifle can performed the exact same function by hooking your thumb in your belt loop on your pants and pulling the trigger while pulling forward on the handguard.
    That means they will also have to make thumbs and/or belt loops illegal too

    • Bud, you are completely right and presented a good explanation.
      The only (tiny) point to correct is that the NFA law “describes an automatic weapon as a firearm that expends more than one round with a single pull of the trigger.” The correct limitation is “one round for each OPERATION of the trigger.” This actually means that a non-machine gun can fire once with a trigger PULL and once with a trigger RELEASE. I know this because I got BATF clarification in order to modify an over-under single trigger shotgun to do this. So. theoretically this BATF ruling (and actual law wording) can be applied to a semi-auto. Two shots by pull and release because a pull & release is one operation of the trigger.

  11. Were I running the investigation, I would concentrate on the Filipina GF. The perp gave her $100K. Three motives for that: 1. He was a nice guy 2. It was hush money 3 He owed someone in the PI big bux, she transferred the $$$.

    #1 negated by his homicidal mania.
    #2 she knew, so who else knew?
    3 if he was involved in organized crime in the PI, a lot of it is run by the muzzies and/or commies.

    Then there is the brother, who did NOT have a shocked face…

    Plenty of leads to work. MSM not talking up these leads at all.

  12. Mas thank you for your input. I view this shooter as a trained Gray person. Without training it is difficult to stay out of the mainstream or neighborhood contact that often trips people up. Certainly not trained in the attack he carried out but the gray of his entire life makes me believe he received this training probably from an alphabet agency. Just a thought from an old guy.

    • BW, I’ve had similar thoughts, but being “gray” to this extent would require a team of “handlers” at a government level, either foreign or domestic. He seems very “gray” in his business dealings, yet seemingly screamed “look at me!” in his leisure. Almost as if he wanted some degree of notoriety in certain circles. Strange. Or is it?

      Then there is the money laundering angle. Real estate and casino gambling are both known to be popular. Those caught at it, if they are dealing with folks big enough, can make for good informants for the feds. Buying all those guns as a part of currying the favor of a “cartel” would not be a new ploy. Feds facilitate gun sales to bad people quite often to further their goals. I quit being surprised at what some federal agencies are capable of long ago. Having these thoughts sicken me.

  13. “Business Insider” reported this evening that an “Internet Personality” had approached a police officer during the LV attack and asked for a gun. Click on the link below to see the article.

    This allegedly pro-RKBA, so-called “King of Instagram” is most assuredly a complete idiot, but the LE officer’s response to the “King of Instagram’s” sudden approach and request for a gun outside the Mandalay in LV shines bright light on the issue of promoting instant identification of ANY armed person during a chaotic mass casualty incident such as the one that occurred recently in LV.

    When the dust settles, this issue of determining “who is who” when chaos reigns and guns are everywhere in sight is surely worthy of discussion.

    Here is a pertinent extract from the referenced article:

    “A new video has emerged showing the self-described ‘King of Instagram’ Dan Bilzerian running toward fire during the Las Vegas shooting and asking police on the scene for a gun.

    ‘Give me a gun,’ Bilzerian said in the footage, showing the officers something in his wallet, very likely a gun permit. ‘You don’t want my help?’

    ‘No, get the f— away from me right now,” the police officer responds. “I don’t know who you are.’ ”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-bilzerian-gun-video-las-vegas-shooting-2017-10?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BISelect&pt=385758&ct=Sailthru_BI_Newsletters&mt=8&utm_campaign=BI%20Select%20Weekend%202017-10-07&utm_term=Business%20Insider%20Select%20-%20Engaged%2C%20Active%2C%20Passive%2C%20Disengaged

  14. Please explain to me why………

    Epidemic teenage pregnancy or STD’s? Mandatory sex education in schools. Free condoms and birth control pills.

    Disease spread by illegal drug use? Needle exchanges and safe locations to inject such drugs w/o fear of arrest. Education for safe methods for such illegal drug use.

    Yet, any suggestion of gun education in public schools is met with almost maniacal opposition. Why? I mean, if it would save just one……….Oh, that’s right, those who love to use that phrase are the same ones who oppose educating our children about safe handling of guns.

  15. Wow Mas. Where did that Patty Hearst reference come from. 19 yr old rich girl KIDNAPPED, held in closet for weeks bound and blindfolded, shitting on herself, then raped. Subsequent to capture living quiet life and marrying a San Francisco PD officer. Your equating the LV guy and her is … well, bizarre.

      • Patty Hearst was convicted of armed robbery, subsequently pardoned many years later. Whether she was a willing convert to the SLA, or really a victim of brain-washing/Stockholm Syndrome is debatable.

        But FWIW she wasn’t carrying an AK but a sawn-down M1 Carbine.

  16. Naturally they’re not going to blame the fragmentation of our society both into special interest groups for political gain and the breaking down of what acceptable behavior is.

    Tom Wolfe did a great book about the raging 60s-70s. IIRC it was called Mau-Mauing the Flack Catchers. All about revolutionary chic and how the various groups were manipulating the power structure and societal norms.

  17. Let us not forget that the NRA Leaders just jumped on the proverbial “ban wagon” with their regulatory comments. Thanks, Guys.

  18. First thing that occurred to me when the tracer rounds were brought up – he’d be at yet another disadvantage amongst the already growing list of mistakes he made (thank God). He had some cursory knowledge of firearms but little or no training. His biggest advantage was his money, which I’m beginning to suspect he had finally realized wasn’t ever going to make him happy.

  19. Just for perspective, the death toll by guns and explosives was greater in the mass murders in Norway and France…

    Another perspective: This may be the U.S. mass shooting with the highest death toll, but it isn’t in the top three U.S. mass murders.
    Happyland Night Club, Murrah Federal Building, 9/11.

    • It isn’t even the highest death toll mass shooting in the U.S., but it is the highest death toll non-government mass shooting. Our government killed a group of 82 in Waco in 1993. Going back a little farther, the government arguably murdered over 150 at Wounded Knee.

  20. “The NRA is, at least, suggesting that if those things go, they get traded for something that will undoubtedly save innocent lives: national concealed carry reciprocity.”

    The only way that national concealed carry will be a positive is if it does not supercede state concealed carry in one’s home state and other like states. I can see the snowflakes in California, Illinois, etc. getting control of the US Congress in the future and then neutering national concealed carry which would leave us worse off than we are today with reciprocity between states. For example, a national concealed carry bill could be changed to allow only small capacity mags for states that formerly allowed Standard capacity mags under reciprocity. What if it was changed to allow only revolvers?

    That is the main problem with a national carry bill (and all central government laws). The population density of cities can dictate legality for the rest of the 98% land area of the US. That is why Hillary wanted to get rid of the Electoral College.

    Careful what you wish for…

    • It is truly a worry that a national law would be distorted by the party in power, or the Progressive on the bench!

    • Well, Back in the 1990s, when the NRA caved in, and allowed the Clnton Gun Bans to be passed into LAW, and look where that Got us,ALL THE CRAP WE ARE STILL FIGHTING TODAY.

      AND IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE DISARMED NOW, IT WILL RESULT, IT WHAT WILL BE A FIELD DAY FOR THE ISLAMIC MUSLIM TERRORIST’S, TO BEHEAD US AMERICAN INFIDEL’S, AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD, THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL!

    • What we need is an amendment to the Constitition that guarantees the Right to keep and bear arms for all citizens, period.
      It wouldn’t be a bad idea to include, oh say, maybe nine other Rights in the bill, specifying what the government cannot, and the people can, do.

  21. I look forward to your continuing thoughts on the investigation as we know more. Many people are up in arms over the NRA and their comments on bump stocks, however if the trade is nation reciprocity, I would be for it. I’m not a fan, owner, or care about bump stocks, but I have zero faith in any legislative action by Pelosi. I feel that the bill she proposed, as written, could include other accessories that allow a firearm to be operated by the user more quickly, like aftermarket triggers. I could fire my AR-15 more quickly with the Geissele SD-3G trigger system. The reasons why do not matter, the fact is for myself, I could. I could see that being a problem with the bill.

    • I’m tired of us the 2nd amendment and the entire constitution having to compromise on our love of freedom enough already we should not give up freedoms for promises of any kind .The lefts promises are worthless.
      Reciprocity would,but be great ,but im shore they would make it virtually useless

  22. Now is the time for us to go on the offensive.We might be able to agree that the ATF could re-determine that Bump stocks are something akin to the M 2 carbine parts which are a combination of parts making a machine gun.But we also need to amend the NFA to remove supressors, short barrel rifles and shotgun orginally made that way, get the machine gun registry opened up to allow old weapons not included to be added at now fee and change the ruling the ATF made in 86 to allow the making of new transferable machine guns.And of course interstate concealed carry so your civil rights would not stop at the border on New Jersey, New York California of other cultural backwaters.
    We need to put the anti civil rights people on the defensive and use this as an opportunity to expand our civil rights.We won the election and we will win the next one also if the people in Washington do what we expect them to do and if the do not then we will remove them and put someone else in their place.If we can do it with the office of President we can certainly do it with any member of Congress.The only thing they really are concerned about is returning to office remember.

    • I strongly believe T.J., that the NRA’s only interest in this case is providing political cover for it’s political friends. They aren’t going to, nor intend to get anything in return, otherwise why fob the matter off on BATFE? Our supposed friends in the legislative realm are mostly running for cover, and have let us down. We gave them everything. We got many of them elected, many more than most think. And they are running away from us as fast as they can. They can’t tell ANYONE they didn’t know about bump fire stocks. Slidefire was a 2017 NRA convention exhibitor.

  23. The NRA will toss bump stock owners under the bus and get nothing in return. Next will be pistol arm brace owners,(Mimics an SBR) and 12 ga Mossberg shockwave “Firearm” owners (Mimics an SBS). They might as well help the state of California go after AR-15 owners using add-on appliances to evade Cali’s AWB. This killer had a clean background and the financial resources to obtain a class III registerd machine gun. If he had thought of it, he probably would have. Look for NRA to toss that class of gun owner in the trash at first opportunity. All the while destroying their Gun’s don’t kill people” argument. Well, bump fire stocks don’t kill people either. They WANT the BATFE involved? The WANT the often arbitrary, heavy handed and nonsensical BATFE exercising it’s statutory rule-making authority? The WANT the firearms branch busy cranking out negative determination letters, or rescinding them, created THOUSANDS of new criminals? This has the “My stuff/gun good, yours bad” crowd practically convicting their fellow gun owners of a crime already. Fudd vs tacticool, “expert” vs recreational shooter, hunter vs self defense practitioner. Way to go NRA. You REALLY SCREWED UP this time. When the NRA punts to BATFE, they have gone seriously off the rails.

    • Amen, NRA dropped the ball. NEVER cave in to the liberals. All that does is Chum the water and make them hunger for more. Resist them at EVERY turn and never surrender an inch. They will not thank you, respect your willingness to compromise, or ever stop pushing their agenda. If the NRA keeps backing down, I will leave the NRA. Dam this burns my azz.

  24. I have been saying that if he flew his plane into the crowd the number of murdered would have been more. No matter what the antis are going to demand our weapons. How about they give up their armed guards?

    • LC, if a person with a clean(?) background had flown his plane into that crowd killing 5x more people, it would have been classified a “tragic accident”.

  25. Astute analysis this far, very interesting Mas!

    A prime point here is continued and expanding investigation to see what else may have transpired (ie other murder) and keeping an open mind as per what caused this. Firearms did NOT cause this.

    • the common elephant in the room for nearly every one of those mass shootings (and attempted ones too) is that in almost every case the perp was on psychotropic drugs… this guy was. They all have one known side effect, though somewhat rare it is common enough to bring warnings….. they have the abioity to instill violence, including suicide and homicide, and aggression. Far too many are prscribed these drugs for relatively innocuous “conditions”, including ADHD, pain, anxiety, depression……. but the drug manufacturers consistently deny they are dangrous, and promote their widespread use. WHY do not the COngress wake up and hold some hearings on those drugs? Make sure they get the records of what drugs the mass killers (and attempters) had been taking in the six months prior to their attacks. The correlation is incredibly high. I was not surprised in the least to learn this guy had been on them too.

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