In a nation where a majority of the states, nearly thirty now, don’t require a permit for a law-abiding citizen to carry a gun, it’s pretty much a malum prohibitum situation in the states which still require a permit.That said, I strongly recommend that you do get the carry permit. Here’s why, from my article in the current edition of the now-online magazine Combat Handguns.
In my state, I still know people that won’t get the required CCW permit, stating that they’ll never need it or that they’ll worry about the legal issues after something happens. Hard to wrap my head around it. I also don’t understand how a juror can find someone not guilty of murder but feel compelled to screw up their life with a felony conviction for not having permission to carry the tool that saved their life.
I read your article with interest. Living in Minnesota they had a “may-issue” carry permit which was only offered to those with enormous wealth and/or political connections. Some rural sheriffs would attempt to process carry permits only to have them denied by the state. In 2003 we got a “shall-issue” permit law passed and signed into law (despite all the “blood in the streets after every traffic accident” BS). My wife and I both got our permits as soon as we could finish the required training and apply. We kept renewing them every 5 years.
Fast-forward to my retirement, at which point we became political and economic refugees from the Soviet Socialist State of MN and moved to NW Wyoming. At that time it was legal for non-residents to open-carry only, while residents could concealed-carry without a permit. I submitted a change-of-address for my MN carry permit even though it wasn’t recognized by WY, and just carried openly for the 6-month period of establishing residency. When my MN permit expired I didn’t bother to renew it.
I just finished the process of getting my WY permit this winter. The only reason for doing so is that my wife may wish to travel and there are a number of states through which we might pass which recognize the WY permit. Most of these are constitutional carry, but some are not. The WY permit costs in total something like just under $100 including the necessary criminal investigation and fingerprinting charges, and I figure it’s pretty cheap insurance if we go to a state in which permits are required and ours would be recognized.
I’ve only been carrying for 22 years, and I’ve never had to draw my firearm outside of the range. With any luck (and a little situational awareness) I’ll never have to, but it’s the same reason that there’s a fire extinguisher near the woodstove. I hope I never have to use it, but it’ll be there if I do. Fortunately I don’t need a permit to have a fire extinguisher.
Devil’s in the details when it comes to RINO states like TN. Our so called Constitutional Carry has many loopholes where you don’t actually have it. State Parks? Nada. In fact we still have on the books a law stating it’s illegal to carry a weapon (even a club) with the “intent to go armed” (why else, right?) your own home notwithstanding. The Handgun Carry License and Constitutional Carry are affirmative defenses to that law. Our Republican Supermajority has repeatedly refused to clean up the laws against the 2A, even after the Bruen ruling.
(Obligatory IANAL warning)
Quick question: Does that “intent to go armed” law include a clause about “to the terror of the public”?
If so, then concealed defensive weapons should be fine; it’s clearly not meant to terrorize.
But YMMV, and again, IANAL.
Excellent article.
Here in NC, Bonnie & I have been CCH instructors since our statute was first passed in 1995. We’ve seen many changes to our statute, including a current push for permitless carry. That said, we always keep our permits active, and always will. In the past two years, we’ve driven to Phoenix, AZ twice, careful to check that we were legal to carry in each state we passed through. Many states no longer require permits for their own citizens; however, visitors are generally NOT covered by such laws. These states usually do respect other states’ permits, making carry by out-of-state visitors (even just driving through) legal only with the permit from your home state.
For the side trip to San Diego, where my father just turned 90, we had to leave the guns in AZ, since CA won’t give permits to their own citizens, let alone out-of-staters. Sad, but necessary. I can use other tools to fight with, if need be; the real weapon is between my ears.
Unless it has changed in the past couple of years, California do allow a non-resident to possess a handgun in their car provided the weapon itself is kept in one locked hard sided container and the ammunition in a second locked hard-sided container. Both must be kept out of view.
In short, one may legally transport the “contraband” within their territory even as it is rendered useless whilst so doing. But at least when you exit the twilight zone you have your friendly Piece in your possession.
But who knows? They seem to all be on about preventing as many as possible the use of our lawful RIGHT to keep and bear. Then they don’t bother to deal with the thugs, pirates, gangstas, and other such misfits, which altogether makes presence in their state a danger.
I keep wondering when that “event” will take place that blows their rabid prohibition laws out of the water and brings a hint of sanity ad security to that fickle place.
I live in Alabama where i COULD carry without a permit, but i keep my permit anyway. I go out of state a lot, so its just nice to have since all the places I go honor a Alabama permit. Besides, if i ever get pulled over its just easy to hand the permit out with my drivers license.
Mas,
Hate to be *that* guy, but if I might ask, what is that holster being worn in the photo above?
Thank you, sir.
S
Alas, Shane, I’m not sure. It’s a file photo.
Thanks anyway. Mebbe I’ll use the ol’ Google thingy… my grandkids say it’s pretty nifty at finding stuff….
Can’t imagine anyone would care to know the answer to my original question, but the Googly thing paid off. It appears to be a DeSantis DeSantis Variable GRD. Might give one a whirl. Cheers!
I fully subscribe to what Mas says.
But, even with a permit, poorly conceived laws can make routine concealed carry by good guys impractical. Charleston, SC, where my wife & I recently met some old friends, provides an example. South Carolina prohibits carry in any establishment that posts a sign of prescribed design on or near all doors into the place. I respect the right of private property owners to control their own space, but the net effect of what is probably mostly “virtue signaling” is that rule-following good guys with concealed weapons cannot enter while the signs pose no barrier to the sociopath who would enter and shoot up the place. Enough stores and eateries in Charleston have these signs that it becomes challenging to walk the downtown area, shop and grab a bite unless one simply goes unarmed.
Some establishments try to play both sides: they leave at least one door (often the back one) unmarked, thereby deliberately “failing” to meet the law’s requirements so they don’t create a legal trap for honest CCW holders, but do mark their main, front door to signal their virtue. However, the visitor who is unaware of the unmarked back door and the wink-nod to CCW holders will still likely avoid that business.
Those store-keepers and restaurant owners may not realize the extent to which they are turning away business. If I hadn’t wished to avoid inconveniencing my friends in their choices for lunch and dinner, I would have politely and respectfully told the manager of each such establishment why I felt forced to take my business elsewhere. My wife & I do visit Charleston every year or two, and when it is just the two of us, we choose to dine and shop at CCW-friendly establishments.
Florida’s approach is better, where signs have no effect on permitted carriers and where property rights are still respected by affording the proprietor the right to personally ask an armed person to leave the premises. In this setting, thousands of legal CCW holders come and go, buying food and doing other shopping peacefully and without anyone being the wiser. The difference is that all those properties are better defended against armed malefactors and Second Amendment rights are quietly and unobtrusively respected.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Florida currently has a lower rate of # of crimes per 1000 population than South Carolina, California, New York State and Massachusetts, according to 100% of the small sample of states about which I randomly queried Microsoft Bing moments ago. Please keep in mind that internet AI searches are subject to a very high error rate, so this sample is far from definitive.
Allowing property owners to criminalize a constitutional right is one of the things that need to be fixed in our laws. No problem with allowing them to request people to leave but invoking criminal law is just wrong. Casinos here in NV tried to do that and succeeded in uniting BLM and police union against them.
Richard:
How about we simply make them legally liable for any and all damages (up to and including death) suffered by any patron who can show (or can have their heirs and assigns show) in court that they would have normally and legally carried onto their premises, but were deterred from doing so by the property owner’s policy. They’ve already got the moral liability, let’s make it legal (and make it HURT monetarily).
Me, I just ignore it. If somebody does manage to spot my concealed firearm, it’ll just be, “Sign? What sign? I’m sorry, I’ll leave immediately, and of course without spending anything here.”
We may be in a malum prohibitum situation regarding carrying a defensive firearm, but the authorities in those states will nevertheless not hesitate one moment to arrest and bring felony charges for violating those malum prohibitum state statutes.
And unfortunately, the courts won’t allow prima facie challenges to those laws, even under Bruen. Nope, it will have to be an “as applied” challenge, which means someone will have to be arrested and charged — and probably convicted — to establish standing to challenge them.
Malum prohibitum or not, nobody is lining up to be the test case.
Self-defense is a two-step process. First, we defend ourselves from the criminals. Second, we defend ourselves from the government. In self-defense cases with a gun, the victim is presumed guilty until he proves himself innocent, to the satisfaction of the judge.
Great article.
Just an FYI, California is the process of starting to issue Non-Resident CCW permits, and I know at least one County is looking into offering a virtual CCW class (for the classroom portion, not sure how the weapon qualification will be handled yet). I’m reluctant in disclosing which of the 58 counties are exploring this option.
But there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
Stay safe out there
Then there are the shenanigans still going on in the People’s Republik of MA, especially for non-resident LTCs. 8~(