In 1983, a man I am proud to call a friend and colleague, Dennis Tueller then of the Salt Lake City Police Department, did the seminal research that showed a man seven yards away could, from a standing start, reach you with gun or club or homicidal bare hands in one-point-five seconds, on the average. Some, as mentioned on the video, will be able to do it faster.

Here’s a clip from a training video Dennis and I did at one of my Lethal Force Institute’s Lethal Threat Management for Police classes, in Utah in 1990.  The people you see on the video are all cops, and most of them, police instructors. The guy you’ll see to your right and my left on the video is that very Dennis Tueller.

or watch video here.

It has been more than forty years since Dennis’ ground-breaking research, 34 years since that video was done, and we still hear people saying “You shouldn’t have shot him because he only had a knife” or “You shot him before he could have stabbed you so you weren’t really in danger.” 

Knowledge is the only known cure for ignorance. Unfortunately, some people are intolerant of knowledge and logic.


  1. What’s really unfortunate is that a huge number of the ignorant are Dem-wing elected or Soros-funded/appointed prosecutors who deliberately choose to remain willfully ignorant in order to convict anyone who attempts to defend themselves. These are the same people who claim that anyone carrying a firearm is a deranged vigilante looking for an excuse to kill someone.

    I’ve only been carrying for about 20 years now, and my carry pistol has never left my holster (or even been gripped) except at the range and for cleaning/lubrication. I must be doing something wrong.

  2. The horrific body cam video of the murder of a police officer in Las Cruses, NM proves this. It also proves the benefit of a responsibly armed citizenry. Just because a situation plays out the same way 100 times doesn’t mean it also will the 101st.

    • That was a (horrific) real life example of the Tueller drill, and the dance to officers (and everyone else) of a person with a knife.
      They video made me feel real physical pain and fear…

  3. I recall doing the timed drills at LFI-1 in 1989. We had one guy (41 year old, 5′ 9″ white male) who covered the distance in 0.87 seconds (checked the working copy of my class notes). Document, document, document your training!

    Not long ago I figured out that a 6 foot tall person with something like a golf club, ball bat or sturdy cane 10 feet away can strike you by taking one fast lunging step. The old guy on the Canemaster website shows a windmill strike that is frighteningly fast.

  4. “…some people are intolerant of knowledge and logic.”

    I am not sure that “intolerant” is the correct word. Unfortunately, many humans are still ruled by emotion. Their “feelings” outweigh any amount of logic or reason. In fact, many humans will go “out-of-their-way” to dismiss and discount knowledge if that knowledge disagrees with their preconceptions.

    This seems to be especially true for humans that are “pre-wired” for left-wing political beliefs. It has been my observation that these humans have a tendency to detach from reality and to try to build an idealized fantasy World in which they can exists. It is almost like the real World is too harsh for them. They reject it so as to exist in a mental “Safe Space” of their own creation.

    It is interesting how many humans seem to be too “soft” for this World. Some retreat into drug and alcohol abuse in order to escape reality. Leftists retreat into “Left-Wing Fantasy Land”.

    This explains why the narrative is so much more important to leftists than the truth. Indeed, Leftists seem to reject the concept of “Truth” right along with their rejection of reality. I suppose that can be understood. A rejection of reality must, of course, go hand-in-hand with a rejection of truth. After all, truth is reality and reality is the truth.

    What makes Leftists “truly” dangerous (forgive the pun) is that they use their narrative and fantasy-building skills to dupe and mislead so many others down their road of left-wing utopia. They deceive so many with their narratives of justice, paradise, and promised utopia. No leftists has ever fulfilled a single utopian promise in the history of the World, but they have deceived hundreds of millions with their well-constructed tales of a “left-wing heaven-on-earth”. People with a left-wing bias so want to believe in the left-wing “dream” that they are willing to “suspend disbelief”, so as to swallow any narrative that the left whips up, no matter how incredible. It makes me wonder if TV and movies share part of the blame. Have we become so used to suspending disbelief, while watching fantasy shows on the tube, that we transfer that ability into our real lives? Have the American People been “conditioned” to believe in fantasy narrative by years of TV and movie indoctrination? Ah, that is a question of the Social Scientists (if any honest ones can be found!).

    Getting back to the topic of this blog, it is easy to show the disconnect between the left-wing fantasy World and reality. Dennis Tueller showed just how dangerous an opponent could be when armed with a knife or a club. Yet, because this knowledge does not fit into the left-wing fantasy World, it is ignored by many for political reasons.

    The Left is focused, like a laser beam, upon banning so-called assault weapons and standard capacity magazines. Yet, in the real World, these items rarely play a significant role in violent crime. To show this, all one has to do is look at the FBI crime statistics pertaining to the weapons used in violence and assaults. Here are some figures:

    1) Personal Weapons (Hands and Feet) are used 125 times more often to perform violence/assaults than rifles.
    2) Handguns are used 11 times more often than rifles.
    3) Knives/Cutting instruments are used 8 times more often than rifles.
    4) Blunt Objects are used 4.6 times more often than rifles.
    5) Motor Vehicles are used 2.6 times more often than rifles.
    6) Asphyxiation is used 1.3 times more often than rifles.

    Well, I doubt that the Left will ever figure out a way to ban hands and feet. They tried, for years, to ban handguns but the Heller and McDonald decisions seem to have put a stop to that. At least, until the Left can “Pack the Court” and reverse those decisions.

    In the UK, the Left is moving to knife/cutting instrument bans but they have not gotten there (yet) here in the USA. I don’t see much of a future in banning blunt object either and it is too impractical to ban motor vehicles yet (although the Green’s on the Left would like to do it to “save” the World from “Climate Change”).

    So, the big target (for the Left) here in the USA is to go after semi-automatic rifles and other nebulous “Assault Weapons”.

    See what I mean? In the real World, banning these firearms would not reduce violence or crime. They simply are not a big factor. However, they are a good target for left-wing fantasy narratives and, as I noted above (to a leftist), the narrative is far more important than the truth.

    As a bonus, these semi-automatic firearms and magazines are the most effective weapons available to arm a People’s Militia. The Left wants to centralize all power in the Government to the point where the People no longer have a say in their leadership. This means crippling any People’s Militia and (ideally) disarming the People so as to enslave them. So, banning these firearms and magazines is a “long step” toward placing the Left permanently in power.

    Ah, the left-wing fantasy narrative aligns with the left-wing political objective. Don’t you just love it when a plan comes together? 🙂

  5. I don’t know if you’ve seen or commented on the officer who was stabbed to death a few weeks ago in New Mexico (the stabber was killed by a citizen bystander with a gun), but the video of that has become my go-to evidence for any stupid “he just had a knife” argument.

  6. Thanks for posting this Mas! I was aware of the drill and research but had never seen the video. I had my wife watch it as well. Seeing it is good reinforcement, for both of us.

  7. Thank you for sharing these videos. This is still fresh in my mind, as I recently listened to your audiobook Deadly Force for the third time. This info is covered in greater detail there. It brought back memories of MAG 80, where an older, overweight out of shape student (me) covered the 21′ in 1.8 seconds, running (as instructed, for safety purposes) at less than full speed. I tied with a younger female student who was recovering from recent cancer surgery. I’m sure that if allowed we both could have ran 21′ in 1.5 seconds or less.

  8. PS on my post…I have been attacked by a bigger man than me with a knife. I was minding my own business completely, witnesses corroborated that, but this guy meant business. His attack started less than six feet from me. I somehow managed until help arrived, but my “techniques” looked more like a bumbling fool. Sheriff’s deputy nabbed him later that night for another crime (another interesting story). The deputy found me later and explained how to get a concealed pistol license, which I did, adopting the slogan “never again.” That was many years ago, and eventually I became a certified pistol instructor. But that kind of incident burns an imprint in the memory like it was yesterday. Thanks again for the video! Jim

  9. If a self-defender’s documented training times to draw from concealment are closer to 2.5secs, does that also mean a comparably longer “Tueller Drill” distance of attack zone could be reasonably argued in a case?

  10. TN_MAN wrote:
    In the UK, the Left is moving to knife/cutting instrument bans but they have not gotten there (yet) here in the USA.’

    Please produce the evidence for this. It’s news to us here in the UK.


    • @ nicholas kane – “Please produce the evidence for this.”

      Always happy to oblige my friend, Nicholas. Please see the link below:

      Please note that this is an official, UK Government link.

      Now, I will admit that all knives have not (yet) been banned. Notice that I qualified my comment by saying that the UK was “moving toward” a ban.

      As with all weapon-prohibition movements, actions are taken incrementally. Typically, with firearms, a prohibitionist will subdivide the firearms into various classes in accordance with their ideas as to their level of social evil. Then they will start banning each class, one by one, until practically nothing is left. In effect, they chip away at firearms ownership until effective firearms-prohibition is achieved.

      As an aside, the alcohol prohibitionists used the same approach to ban alcohol, a century ago, in the United States. They subdivided alcoholic beverages into classes (beer, wine, hard spirits, etc.) and then targeted them, one-by-one at the State level. Eventually, they installed (by Constitutional Amendment) a nearly universal ban. Incremental, subdivision banning has always been the favored approach of object-prohibitionists.

      The weapons-prohibitionists have already restricted firearms, in the UK, down to minimal levels of ownership. They have now turned their attention to knives and cutting instruments. As the link (above) indicates, they are using the same incremental approach, that was so successfully used to restrict firearm ownership, on knives now.

      • We have had a CONSERVATIVE government in the UK since 2010. How is any of this part of a leftist plot?


      • There go the old bayonet-equipped Tower muskets from over the fireplaces! Might be time for a new Constitution in the old UK.

    • nicholas kane,

      I can’t quote sources, but I saw a story where they were trying to make large kitchen knives blunt, by rounding off the point, in the UK. On FoxNews, I’ve seen two stories where people have been arrested for silently praying, on a sidewalk, outside closed abortion clinics. So, they are prosecuting thought crimes in the UK. We know handguns are not allowed in the UK. We know you can own long guns, as long as they are kept in lockers at the range, not at home. Farmers are allowed to have shotguns at home.

      If I am wrong, correct me.

      I anticipate you will say crime, and crimes with guns, are more common in the USA, than in the UK. That is true. The USA has a minority population of Swedish grandmothers, who commit a disproportionate amount of violent crimes here. In the UK, you do not have so many Swedish grandmothers. Also, these Swedish grandmothers form gangs, and often the gangs use guns against each other. So, criminal versus criminal crime adds to the crime statistics here, but only affects non- criminals who are hit by stray bullets.

      (Whatever happened to Pat Condell? He made great speeches on YouTube.)

      Your posts help further our discussion, and our learning.

      • Glad you enjoy our discussions. it’s refreshing to debate with people who’ll actually produce evidence and are prepared to look at the other sides view

        As with my reply to TN_MAN;
        The conservatives have been in power since 2010 here. So none of this is part of any leftist plot.
        With our parliamentary system the prime minister is the person who can command a majority in the house of commons. We have no constitution. The majority in parliament have total power to do anything.

        If the right didn’t want these laws they could have removed them.
        And in fact they introduced them.

        ‘During the passage of the Public Order Act 2023, Parliament voted to introduce legislation to prohibit certain activities within 150 metres of an abortion clinic or a hospital that provides abortion services (“Safe Access Zones”).’,or%20anywhere%20visible%20from%20those

      • Viking tradition is replete with stories of “shield maidens” who defended battle lines with determination while the male Viking warriors ruthlessly attacked their enemies from either side of the upraised targets. I guess eventual progress from the occasional surviving Viking maidens to hordes of gang-banging Swedish grandmas was inevitable. Watch out for identifying neck and skull tattoos saying “Peace now, my way, or else” and “give it up, or die!”

      • “I can’t quote sources, but I saw a story where they were trying to make large kitchen knives blunt, by rounding off the point, in the UK.”

        Sailors that signed onto square riggers in the age of tall ships were usually required to bring their own knife on board with them. Some Captains required that the point be broken off to reduce its effectiveness as an assault weapon. No work on the ship required the point of a knife.

    • @ nicholas kane – “The conservatives have been in power since 2010 here. So none of this is part of any leftist plot.”

      I see that you still hold onto the old concepts of conservatives and liberals. Those concepts are outmoded. They date back to the day when North American and Europe had effective “working democracies” with either a true two-party or a multi-party system. Unfortunately, we are living in a “Post-Democracy” World here in the 21st Century.

      The old two-party / multi-party system has been replaced by the “Uniparty”. The differences in Political Party, in Today’s World, is largely for show. It is to give the appearance of democracy when, in fact, no democracy (or in the case of America, no Republic) still exists.

      The only difference today is one of degree. Your “Conservative Party” is actually “Left-Wing”. Your “Labour Party” is actually hardcore Marxist/Communist. True Conservatives, as in the U.S.A are marginalized and pushed to the fringe. Very often, they are falsely accused of being criminals and arrested on bogus charges. Thus creating the pool of “Political Prisoners” that currently rot in various gaols. We currently have hundreds of political prisoners, here in the USA, that are rotting in jails in Washington, D.C. Many on bogus charges manufactured out of the January 6th “False Flag” incident.

      So, telling me that your “Conservation Government” worked, hand-in-glove, with the Labour Party to pass all these laws to disarm the People and enforce left-wing thought-crimes, does not impress or sway me. Your “Conservatives” are like our “RINO’s”. They are left-wing wolves wrapped in sheep-skin.

      A “True” Conservative or Libertarian Government, that valued the Rights of The People, would not have gone along with the passage and enforcement of such laws. The fact that your so-called “Conservative Government” did so (and actually pushed them forward) tells me the truth about who is actually Conservative and who is actually a quisling.

  11. As Mr Ayoob wrote in the 80s (not word for word)
    ‘It’s difficult to miss someone a foot from you. A knife requires no skill, virtually no money. No licence or practice. And can infict more harm than a handgun. No knife ever jammed or ran out of ammo.’
    Every country in the word allows you to carry a knife for a good reason. If that wasn’t the case police would be getting easy arrests just waiting outside chef’s shops.
    Even in the UK I don’t worry about my multi tool; “I need it for work and I’m on my way there now officer”.
    The attacker in Sydney yesterday killed 6 and injured many more.
    But turning that around:
    Why carry a gun?

      • Before the days of double action revolvers and speed loaders and spare mags for auto loaders, your fast reload was a tomahawk or bowie knife.

    • Why carry a gun? Most people will never need a gun. Most cops will never need a gun. But there are corpses in cemeteries who would not be there if they had carried a gun when they were attacked. Also, there are people who are alive today, but would be mouldering in the grave if they had not had a gun when attacked.

      Guns save lives. We cannot prevent mass shootings, but we can shorten them by returning accurate fire, swiftly. Instead of school shootings where 20 students die, we could have school shootings where 3 students die.

      The likelihood of a criminal attack is low, but the stakes are high. The stakes are life or death, or serious bodily injury.

      You probably don’t need a gun in the United Kingdom. But, you will wish you had lots of guns if the Muslims among you decide to convert the UK by force. If they out-birth your citizens, and then out-vote your citizens, the Muslims could peacefully bring the UK under Sharia Law, but that would take 100 or 200 years.

      Why carry a gun? Ask a Jew.

      • @ Roger Willco – “You probably don’t need a gun in the United Kingdom…”

        That is a dangerous assumption to make. If you had written that “You probably won’t be allowed to carry a gun or other really effective self-defensive arm in the United Kingdom”, then I would agree with you.

        However, just because the UK Government bans the people from carrying effective self-defense arms, it does not follow that the people don’t need, on occasion, to defend themselves. Your statement that one “does not need a gun” comes straight out of the left-wing mindset and playbook.

        We don’t want to “buy in” to the left-wing fantasy that firearms-prohibition actually works! To quote Patrick Henry: “Forbid it, Almighty God!”

        Crime occurs everywhere. There is no nation, no city, no town, no village, that is totally free of crime. The only lands that are “free” of crime are those where are unpopulated by people. 🙂

        Crime, including violent crime, certainly does happen in the UK. See the link below for some statistical data.

        and here is another link if you really want to get “into the weeds”:

    • In case you meant, “why carry a gun when you can just defend yourself with a knife?” That makes some sense, but knives require being up close. Who wants to be close to a violent attacker? If the attacker has a knife, and I have a knife, we might take turns stabbing each other. He will win if he is stronger than I am.

      My guess is a gun could stop a fight quicker than a knife would, but I may be wrong about that. A knife may be a good choice for a rape victim. Knives are not as loud as guns, but carving up a person is kind of grotesque to me. I guess I just prefer to shoot a bad guy from a distance. And, I wouldn’t want to bring a knife to a gunfight.

      I might even prefer to use a hammer against an attacker. Guns are more gentlemanly. Knives and hammers are more savage. Against a young man, a grandmother is going to need a gun, not a knife.

    • “Why carry a gun?”

      Quote of the Day:

      “Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.” – Franz Kafka

  12. Was it you that did this drill where the knife man was in a wheelchair? I saw that somewhere and my memory is that it was from one of your classes.

  13. i’m not against carrying guns. Just saying we can’t have it both ways.
    “someone with a knife is still dangerous to me when i’ve a gun. But a knife isn’t enough for me to defend myself”.
    Is like the peope who argue against large capacity mags ‘because it makes criminal more dangerous’, but say I don’t need one, as it makes me no safer.
    Does a person with a large capacity mag have an advantage or not?
    If ‘yes’, you are handing criminals an advantage by making them illegal.
    If ‘no’. Why ban them?


  14. I will bet ‘dollars to donuts” that the leftists, in the Australian Government, will now seize upon this recent incident, in Sidney, to move toward new knife/cutting instrument restrictions.

    They used mass-murder events, plus incremental subdivision banning, in their past efforts to restrict firearms in Australia. In other words, the standard, left-wing pattern and maneuver.

    I will bet that they now do the same with knives. They will go after big knives and swords first, because they will claim that they are the “most evil, most socially destructive”. (Note the method – divide and conquer) However, the incremental approach will, gradually, be ramped up (over time) so that, in a decade or two, even pen knives will end up banned.

    It is never enough for the Object Prohibitionists. The entire left-wing mindset is built around the concept of blaming external factors (poverty, drug/alcohol abuse, ignorance, capitalist economics, weapons, sugary soft drinks, etc.) for all social evils. With a leftist, it is always about the evil external environment and never, never, never about evil people. No, Np, No, No, No! Don’t you DARE to blame the person! Let’s all chant the left-wing mantra: People are always GOOD; it is society that is always BAD!

    Therefore, Left-wing “Solutions” to problems always focus externally. For violence and crime, they always focus on the tools used. They will never, never, never, ever focus on the tool-user. Marx Forbid!

    Because leftists ALWAY ignore the “human factor”, their solutions always fail. It is worse than failing. Their solutions usually make the underlying problems worse.

    The disconnect from reality is plain to see. Disassociation from reality, living in an imaginary “Safe Space”, is a clear sign of mental illness. I am forced to agree with those that say that left-wing ideology is a mental illness. Unfortunately, we have millions and millions of these “mentally ill” people roaming the planet and doing untold damage and harm. In North America and Europe, the “inmates” are truly “running the asylum”.

  15. This is a classic video, well worth watching several times.

    While Mas’ exact age is a matter of speculation, since stone-tablet birth certificates were only affordable to the wealthiest of families at that time, this video evidence of a young Mas Ayoob, coupled with carbon dating, suggests that he was born sometime in the late Mesozoic or early Cretaceous periods. This helps explain why even his earliest videos contain wisdom that is still relevant a third of a century later.

    Mas, you are truly a living treasure of the 2A community.

  16. I had a fleeting acquaintance with the blade culture. It was enough for me to really KNOW just how deadly a person skilled with a blade can be. There are reasons that when there weren’t guns, those who used blades trained for years. Fortunately, those types are fairly rare, but you don’t need to be Doug Marcaida to inflict serious injury with a blade. Or club for that matter. FWIW, Mr. Marcaida commented that if the person is really skilled, you’ll never see the knife. You will, however, feel it.

    For those who’ve never seen the Caliber Press video on Surviving Edged Weapons, it’s available on youtube.

  17. I think it was about 20 some odd years ago when I attended a state sponsored training class that was required to renew my CHL. The instructor picked me out at random and gave me a blue plastic inert training Glock and asked me to stand. He stood about 20 feet away with a rubber training knife. He said “Point the Glock at me and pretend I am an attacker with this knife”. I pointed the training pistol at him and immediately said “Bang” and then sat down. We had to do it again without my “proactive defense”, so he could show the class how fast a knife attacker could close the distance between you and him.

    Another thing to keep in mind is even though the attacker is mortally hit, he could still reach you and plunge the knife into a vital organ. No one wins. With that in mind, my proactive defense demo in class probably should have been “Bang, Bang, Bang, and maybe Bang, Bang again”. IMO, a head shot is probably the fastest way to shut down the attacker’s computer and disable any further animation. Difficult to do in the heat of the moment. Fortunately for me, I have never had to live through a real scenario.

  18. We used to use soluble markers as ‘knifes’ when I studied martial arts. Even the black belts (and we had the best in the country) had lines on their clothes after winning a ‘fight’.
    Look at your techniques with that in mind and you realise things like:
    “I did a perfect arm lock, which involves pulling a hand with a knife in it, right into my stomach, then used the arm lock to push him to the ground. So i just disemboweled myself”.
    With a marker in each hand, someone in their first class would leave the black belt covered in ink.

    • “Even the black belts (and we had the best in the country) had lines on their clothes after winning a ‘fight’.”

      Yes, indeed. Knives, swords, spears, bows/arrows, and other old-style battle weapons can be horribly effective. Steven Pinker has argued that the ancient World, prior to the invention of gunpowder and firearms, was actually much more violent than in modern times. In other words, that the World has been growing more peaceful over the last few centuries. Given the long and bloody history of warfare and riots, right up to the current day, this seems counter-intuitive. Yet, Mr. Pinker has amassed a lot of data, which he has documented, to support this claim. See this link:

      However, it is certainly true that many of the bloodiest battles, in history, were fought prior to the invention of gunpowder and firearms. See this link:

      Now, it is generally considered that firearms first started to be used, in warfare, in the 13th Century. The Battle of Ain Jalut (September 3, 1260) is generally considered the first major battle where firearms were used. See this link:

      Therefore, when you look at Wikipedia’s list of battles by casualties, just remember that any battle fought before 1260 AD would likely not to have involved any firearms. All those battles, and there are many very bloody ones, would have use the old weapons of sword, spear, ax, bow/arrow, etc. to rack up the dead and wounded.

      So, the left-wing idea that “if only we could ban and get rid of all those nasty firearms, then the World would become an utopian paradise of Peace and Harmony” is total horse manure. If Firearms-Prohibition worked, the leftists in the UK would not now be going after knives and other cutting instruments. Their switch in target is a tacit admission that their previous object prohibition policies are failures.

      They are too proud and arrogant to admit their past failures. Therefore, they must always seek to “double-down” and go for more, and more, and more prohibition. It is never enough!

  19. This is off-topic but I feel the need to issue a mea culpa here. I have been among those who have heaped derision upon “Shotgun Joe” Biden for his advocacy of the classic double-barrel scattergun for home defense.

    However, a recent incident is forcing me to “Eat Crow” for my breakfast. It appears that a double-barrelled blast from the old shotgun is just the ticket to settle matters. At least, when dealing with only a single home invader.

    The news report, below, provides further details:

    Note that, according to this story, the homeowner initially grabbed “a .45” (presumably something like a 1911) for home defense but then transitioned to the “Old Reliable” double-barrelled scattergun after a moments reflection.

    So, as much as it pains me to say so, it looks like our anointed President Biden is not TOTALLY in error with respect to his home defense recommendation.

    Yuk! This Crow that I am eating is a tough old bird! 🙂

    • In the NRA magazine, “America’s First Freedom,” April issue, in the “Armed Citizen” column on page 18, there is an acount of a homeowner using a muzzleloading rifle against three home intruders. The defender shot the first intruder, and the other two ran away. This happened in Colchester, Vermont on January 31st, 2024.

      Shhh. Don’t tell Joe.

      • I found a news report on this incident. See the link below:

        What next? Will someone use a sword or a spear to repel invaders? Perhaps, a viking axe?

        Tell you what, if we are going to go “Old Style”, I will contact Dixie Gun Works and order up one of their muzzle-loading Cannons! Perhaps one of their Swivel guns! See the link below:,541/product_name/MC0629+FRONTIER+SWIVEL+GUN

        I can put it on a flexible swivel mount and position it so as to cover all the doors that provide access to my home.

        Ah! A heavy charge of “Grape Shot” loaded on top of a stiff charge of black powder! That will be “Just the Ticket” to repel borders the old-fashioned way!

        After all. I am getting a bit “long-in-the-tooth” to start swinging a Viking Battle Axe. Better to simply aim the “Swivel Gun” and light the touch hole! 🙂

        Dang! I am forgetting that Old Joe Biden has told us, on numerous occasions, that Americans can’t own cannons and never could. Not even back during the days of the American Revolution. Surely, we cannot doubt his word? After all, leftists have SUCH A REPUTATION for telling the TRUTH! (Roll Eyes!)

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