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KILLING IN AMERICA: FACING THE REALITIES IN PERSPECTIVE — 18 Comments

  1. Mas – I followed the link to the “Liberal Gun Club” article. Frankly, I must disagree with your assessment that it is a “refreshing dose of reality”. The only thing refreshing about it is that these “liberals” reject firearm prohibition as the “miracle cure” to all violence and suicide in the world. It is, indeed, refreshing to find some leftists that do not slavishly worship the concept of firearms prohibition.

    Their talking points are nothing more than left-wing ideology with the gun control filtered out. All of the remaining “solutions” that they suggest (from universal health care, to addressing racism and income inequity in the inner cities, to more social safety net programs, etc.) come straight out of the left-wing playbook.

    Notice that they say nothing about the way that their left-wing ideology has destroyed marriage and the family in the USA. They say nothing about their left-wing culture which breeds nothing but self-centered snowflakes with no sense of civic responsibility. They say nothing of the loss of religion and a moral center among our people. They say nothing about the left-wing dominated media and education systems that brainwash young minds into being mindless cattle that are fit only to serve the liberal elite with their “strong backs and weak minds”.

    The authors of this article clearly share the left-wing worldview in which all humans are inherently good and all the evils of the world proceed from social and environmental causes. A worldview with which, as you know, I profoundly and totally disagree.

    Sorry, outside of their rejection of firearm prohibition as a solution to violence and suicide, these people have nothing new or meaningful to contribute to the real causes of violence in this country.

    • That was my though as well while reading through it. At least they did remove the baseline anti-gun propaganda, but the remainder still seems to hold the same viewpoint as even the most rapid anti-2As.

      Also, having grown up in Illinois and having family who still live there, this particular quote is both laughable and very sad as to the apparent lack of understanding of the current situation in these authors: “relatively lenient gun possession laws in Illinois, McDonald v. Chicago.” Sure, the situation for law-abiding gun owners and concealed carriers is improving, but very slowly and it still isn’t much better than NY.

    • I suspect that is the point Mas was making? The “refreshing dose of reality …” relates to the mindset that neither side can dismiss.

      Ultimately, it is not the tool …

    • You know they’re liberals, right? I mean, it’s right there in the name.

      If the “loss of religion” was what made our country so violent, why don’t now mostly-nonreligious European countries face comparable levels of violence? Is it a one-time thing, like ripping off a Band-aid, where once you get mostly non-religious, after that the violence lowers and it’s smooth sailing?

      Are you married? Divorced? Never married?
      Has your marriage in some way been weakened by it being easier for your theoretical wife to leave you?
      Was the only thing holding your theoretical marriage together the government telling your wife she had to make it work instead of leaving you, or telling you that you couldn’t abandon her?

      Most of the people I’ve encountered in public service and charity work since leaving the military would describe themselves as left-wing, lots of them are my age or younger. When was the last time you took care of your community?

      Wait, are the kids these day self-centered snowflakes, or beasts of burden with strong backs?

      TN_MAN, are we supposed to recognize you from somewhere? You believe that humans are inherently evil or something? Is that why you needed the government telling you that you couldn’t abandon your wife?

      • CA_GUY,

        It’s true that a moral person should act morally no matter what the government says the rules are. But human beings do have an easy time giving in to temptation. If the government says it will give young women money to have children, but not if they have a husband, then that makes becoming a single parent a rather easy choice. That is a policy which weakens families.

        If human beings have a difficult time being moral, shouldn’t governments make laws which help their citizens make moral choices? Wouldn’t a country made up of moral people be stronger than a country made up of immoral people? I guess if the moral citizens were pacifists, and the immoral citizens were Klingons (warlike), then the immoral country might be stronger. How strong would our economy be if we were a nation of shoplifters?

        It doesn’t help when the Supreme Court says slavery is legal for centuries, then reverses itself. Abortion was illegal before 1973, since then it has been legal. This is confusing.

        I remember being 12 or 13 and thinking, if there is a God I want to find out about Him and get on His good side. If there is no God, I will do whatever I want. Jeffrey Dahmer, the cannibal, is reported to have said, “If there is no god, can’t I do whatever I want?”

        As for immorality, it sells. People like drugs, gambling and prostitution. Popular music which is immoral sells better than pop music which is not immoral. So, if the family unit is the building block of society, it makes sense that we want those small units to be strong and healthy. We don’t want to use inferior bricks when building a wall. I think that is close to what TN_MAN was thinking.

      • @ CA_GUY – You believe that humans are inherently evil or something?

        Humans are a mixed bag. They are not inherently evil but neither are they inherently good. Human behavior depends upon a complex interaction of both inherent behavior and environmental inputs. In other words, it depends upon both nature and nurture.

        Unfortunately, a great many humans cannot “wrap their heads” around this complex side of human behavior. It is much easier, from a political philosophy perspective, to “go to the limit” and just assume people are purely good or purely evil. This approach, although very easy, is also extremely dangerous.

        If one assumes humans are purely evil, then it leads to a political philosophy that believes that the State needs to tightly control the behavior of the people so as to limit their evil tendencies. In other words, it creates a fascist government.

        If one assumes humans are purely good (as leftists do), it leads to a political philosophy that the world’s evil is caused purely by negative social and environmental forces. It leads to a belief that the State must tightly control mankind’s environment (education, economic system, social climate, employment, etc.) so as to limit the harm caused by these negative forces. In other words, it gives rise to the Marxist, Socialist “Nanny” government advocated by the Left.

        Either way, whether it is the direct control of a fascist State or the environmental control of the Marxist, Socialist State, the end result is a totalitarian government and a loss of freedom and liberty for the people.

        Democracy can only exist in the middle of these extremes. It can only exist in a State that recognizes the complexity of human behavior and recognizes the right of the People to choose their Government rather than be tightly controlled by their Government.

        In America today, the leftist ideology has gained a strong foothold in education, the media, in Hollywood, and in some sectors of Government. Despite what you may think, their is a VERY BAD THING because it is driving America from the safe middle ground of Democracy into the arms of totalitarian Marxist Socialism. The outcome will not be good.

        If you doubt this, look at what the Marxist Socialist philosophy recently did to Venezuela. It caused great harm and people are fleeing that country by the millions.

        If you are a CA_GUY, look at your home State of California. Has the Marxist, Socialist, left-wing philosophy been a boon to your State? Or has it placed California billions of dollars in debt? Are not businesses fleeing California in droves in order to find more friendly business climates?

        Look at San Francisco. I saw the old Hitchcock movie “Vertigo” a few months ago. It was filmed in San Francisco in the late 1950’s. One thing that leaps out at the viewer was the cleanliness and beauty of the City back then. Is it still clean? Is it still beautiful? No, it is not. Today, they are publishing maps to show people where the human waste and needles are piled. Decades of left-wing ideology has driven the city into the ground.

        Wake up, CA-GUY. The USA does not need more of the Left-wing ideology espoused by the “Liberal Gun Club” or any other breed of leftists that currently infests the government and media. No, what we need is a return back to those core American values that built our Democracy.

  2. In going to the link I was particularly struck by the section on “personal conflicts.”
    To quote: “Racially segregated minority neighborhoods have a long history … that conflictual encounters will erupt in violence.”

    This “long history” goes all the way back to the mid-1960s and the ‘eruption’ of the welfare-state. Prior to that families stayed together, fathers were in the home, children went to school and were graduating. It was the introduction of government, the welfare state, into the culture, that undermined the negro middle-class, broke up families and led to the dissolution we see today.
    It is not a “long” history at all. It is a short history of a precipitous decline in family value(s), sponsored and encouraged by government programs that destroyed the fabric of negro society and culture.

    Where do guns fit in? With graduation rates at historically low levels (below those of the ’50s) and gang membership at historical highs- guns, illegally possessed guns, have become both a status symbol and a necessary tool for survival in the underground “gangsta-world.” Guns remain as tools and nothing more. Tools can be used or misused. Without education, without hope, when the only “community” support is the gang, guns will be misused.

    The situation we see today is directly traceable back to the programs begun in the 1960s because, “we’re from the government, and we’re here to help….”

  3. While there is, in fact, a refreshing dose of reality in the presentation of figures and certain considerations, there’s still a glaring disconnect.

    That disconnect is the concept that making more jobs/better opportunities available in certain geographical areas will cause a vast cultural shift resulting in less violence. Yes, it would make some difference. However, to achieve maximum effect, there would have to be a monumental change in the poverty-bureaucratic complex and the “vision” that sustains it. Not to mention a revamp of the “educational system”.

    Having some experience with the inner city, I have tremendous admiration for those in that environment who maintain real world jobs and solid values. The low effort/high reward ratio of the other side of the street is powerful. To entirely too many the high risk is worth it.

  4. “Isn’t much better than NY ? ” Illinois CCL holders can carry in the City of Chicago. Try that in NY City, assuming one has a NY State CC permit.Its a no go. And still no magazine ban in Il, although that could change with the expected anti-gun (Democrat) Governor and Attorney General coming in next year.

  5. It’s funny. Here’s an article from a group long identified as holding solely anti-firearm viewpoints who are saying something completely different than that which we are used to hearing from the left. The organization (LGC) has more to say about shooting sports than most other organizations, too. Camp Perry, CMP, Olympic shooting sports – they cover it all.

    It’s too bad some folks will discount without perusal anything that they may write or say, largely because of the word “Liberal” in the club title.

    • There is one liberal who posts here that provides a thoughtful, courteous and very well-written view of his thoughts and point of view.
      Then there is you…

      • Guys, we try not to get personal here. Let’s keep it to discussing ideas, not personalities.
        Thanks,
        Mas