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MORTON GROVE TO KENNESAW: HOPE FOR THE NEW YEAR — No Comments

  1. Mas,

    It’s funny that you mention Kennesaw. I just moved to Knoxville, after living in Kennesaw for about five years.

    It’s a small nit, but my understanding is that the law requires a gun to be owned by each “head of household,” not owned by each citizen. It’s also interesting that you mention Morton Grove, because the Kennesaw law was specifically passed, at least in part, as a symbolic retort to the Morton Grove law.

    The law was challenged by the ACLU when it was first passed, but was upheld, due in part to the large number of exemptions. People are exempt if they are disabled, felons, and last but not least, if they conscientiously object. This may help explain why nobody has ever been prosecuted for being in violation of the law.

    Never the less, I was always proud when people heard where I lived and asked, “Isn’t that the place where you have to own a gun?” Heck yes. Although I was quick to point out the legal necessity was the least of the reasons why I owned firearms.

  2. … and if I could, I would also like to point the readers in Georgia to the web site of GeorgiaCarry (http://georgiacarry.org). I’m a dues-paying member even though I no longer live in Georgia, but I’m not otherwise affiliated with them.

    This organization has done an incredible amount to advance and protect gun rights in Georgia. Yes, they organize demonstrations, but more fundamentally, they get laws passed and win court cases. GeorgiaCarry has sued and won against many cities and counties who believe they can regulate firearms, in violation of Georgia’s non-preemption statue. Georgia residents with a CCW can now carry a firearm in a restaurant that serves alcohol, due largely to the efforts of GeorgiaCarry.

    When you say, “we are winning,” GeorgiaCarry is the first org that comes to my mind. Certainly, there are other gun rights orgs out there, but none has affected me personally as much as GeorgiaCarry.

  3. Massad,

    It seems that the greatest challenge to national reciprocity is the disparity in the requirements that one must meet in order to obtain a concealed carry permit. I live in Maryland, and while I have not applied, I’ve been told that it is extremely difficult to obtain a permit. What would you think about some entity, with national stature, proposing a set of uniform minimum standards that could be the basis for each state’s requirements that an individual would have to meet in order to be issued a concealed carry permit. These standards should address basic safety and responsibility training as well as background checks (the same as used for firearm purchases). Perhaps, this might help resolve the issue where some states are more restrictive than others, and if a consensus could be reached among the various state legislators as to what should constitute the minimum requirements, it would pave the way for reciprocity. Of course, I don’t know how you would address the cases where some states continue to make it more restrictive for their own citizens and almost impossible to obtain a permit.

  4. Ya, damn it , Mas, Doyle (Wi) twice vetoed ccw leaving us good folk to the wolves while surrounded with body guards. Now both houses are full of liberals, the state’s in the red (badly), and he’s gonna take a powder. I feel sorry for whom ever tries to straighten out this mess. The supreme court may be the only way we’ll get ccw before the next millenium. Happy New Year to all.

  5. As to training/qualification standards that would meet a recognized minimum, why not follow the HR218 model. Retired sworn officers, who meet other criteria, can qualify either via the department they worked for or under the auspices of the state they currently reside in. By using the same standards as the state’s police officers, the objections centered around varying levels of expertise should be addressed. To take it further, those “in house”standards could be easily adapted for civilian training by any state.

  6. Happy New Year Mas and lady! It’s been a while since I met you in November 2005 in Madison, WI.
    You are correct, we are winning. Someday Illinois and Wisconsin will have CCW!

  7. MAS,
    Great article on carrying. Interesting what we have to do as concealed carry law abiding citizens.

  8. Mas,

    Thanks so much for bringing your gifted writing and your years of acumulated knowledge to this blog. It is one thing to possess the knowledge, but another to be willing to share it in this manner. Encouragement and blessings for the New Year!

    The unfortunate thing about reciprocity is that it makes the system so difficult to understand for those who are trying to act within the law. I have a concealed carry permit for New York and Pennsylvania, and I will be taking a trip to Tennessee next weekend. As much as I’ve tried, I cannot determine the legality of keeping my handgun unloaded and in a locked box in the luggage compartment of my car as I drive through Ohio. Do you know of a resource that can help? I am OK to carry in the other states I’ll be passing through, and I don’t mind being unarmed as I transit through.

  9. I just hope that if we eventually get a nationwide CCW allowance it will simply be that all states shall honor each other in this regard. The idea of a federal database makes me nervous.

  10. Even though it’s considered a “may issue” state, in practice Alabama is “shall issue”. Any sheriff that tried to get cute with CCLs, without a really good reason, would find himself term-limited to ONE!

  11. I’ve cited the Militia Act of 1792 many times in my argument that the Second Amendment was designed intially to apply to the States. If it were not so, the Second’s provisions would have been included in the First, which was prefaced: “Congress shall make no law. . . .” THAT, my friends excluded the States. The Second Amendment, as we all know, contains no such limitation. There can be no other reason for the prefatory language in the First.

    The Militia Act, a Federal law, specifies who shall be in the militia of each STATE and provides that “EVERY CITIZEN. . .enrolled and notified, SHALL, within six months thereafter, PROVIDE HIMSELF with a good musket or firelock” and other gear tightly specified that would enable him to serve as a combat soldier.

    The Act was in effect until it was supplanted by the 1903 Militia Act

    The only valid reason that the Second has not been “incorporated” against the States is that it was directed at the States and the central government from its inception. The reason that the courts and the administration pretend that is not the case is to accrue to themselves the power to excert a greater degree of authority over the population.

  12. Information, please: I see the notation, “Your comment is awaitig moderation,” preceding the text of my comment. I haven’t seen that before, and over the course of many decades I’ve learned that paranoia is the only sane posture for anyone. If the comment isn’t pertinent to this thread–and I think it is, if only tagentially–that is a reason for taking it down. It is clearly not written with malice toward other readers/writers/posters. Remaining is the possibility that it could be taken down because the moderator disagrees with my reasoning or presentation of facts. That–in my opinion– would be something the readers oght to have the opportunity to see and evaluate without the assistance and intervention of a moderator.

    Please advise.

  13. What I would like to know, is there a reliable and accurate website for information on carrying a gun off duty on LEOSA? Are you restricted to the gun your agency issues? Can you carry your own choice?

  14. Well, it’s good to know that at least out of State LEO’s can be armed when thay visit Illinois.I live in downstate Illinois and people in this part of the State are pretty much everyday folk, but we are none the less subject to the “common sense” gun laws that liberal Politicians in the North think are necessary to “keep us safe”.
    I’ve never understand stood why the powers that be in Illinois/Chicago will issue a FOID card and allow you to own just about any firearm you choose, but still not allow CCW.If someone passes their background checks when buying a firearm and have a valid Illinois FOID card(which is issued by the Illinois State Police),then how is that person not fit to also have a CCW permit.
    If someone is so prone to violence or completely mentally unbalanced that they will pull out their gun & start shooting at the slightest provocation,then that person shouldn’t and won’t be able to get a FOID card or legally purchase a firearm to begin with. But, if you pass all of Illinois strict rules to get a FOID and background checks to purchase,then you should be a perfect candidate for a CCW permit. I’ve lived in Chicago and can tell you from experience that criminals have very little regard for Illinois firearm laws(I was mugged by a gun toting punk for $40),so all these laws do is disarm law-abiding citizens. And you still see some law after law being proposed by some Chicago Politician(Bobby Rush in particular) that wants to further restrict gun rights for law abiding Citizens.
    It’s funny that every other State that has CCW permits haven’t devolved into lawless chaos and wild west gunfights on the street, so maybe Illinois should look at the examples of other States and the reality of legal CCW. Florida issued me a out of state CCW(which is recognized by a large number of other States),so at least I can be legally armed when I’m out of Illinois.
    Maybe I’ll just move to Florida and be done with Illinois and all it’s nonsense once and for all. CCW and year around warm weather sound like a winning combo!

  15. Good to see you came down to Georgia! Hope you all have a great and happy new year. Keep up the great work!!

  16. Hi, Flavet —

    The way the site is set up, the moderator has an opportunity to review submitted comments before they are posted. This keeps out spam, some of which is pretty obnoxious. I opened ColtForum recently only to find some pretty hard core pornography in their Lounge section that the moderators hadn’t spotted yet.

    Agreement with me or anyone else is not required. That would make it a mutual admiration society, not the forum we want it to be.

    best,
    Mas

  17. Both of our esteemed senators in Washington State voted against the National CCW bill. I for one will vote accordingly. Washington is a shall issue state that requires no training to obtain a CPL. The measure was voted down by Murray and Cantwell because they didn’t want to accept other states CCW holders that have lesser requirements. Does that make any sense to you? I didn’t think so…
    Best wishes for a successful 2010.

  18. A benefit of a civilian equivalent to LEOSA should be uniform regulations on where you can and cannot carry. Personally, I would prefer allowing civilian carry everywhere not protected by effective screening (probably, but not necessarily, metal detectors) backed up by armed security.

    Wasn’t LEOSA opposed by the anti-gunners? I guess it’s not just civilians they don’t trust.

  19. Mas,

    I am a member of Georgiacarry.org as well. If we would have known you were coming through we would have filled the Varsity with people wearing orange buttons that say “Guns save lives” in your honor. If anyone from Georgia is reading this and not a member, check us out.

  20. I’m torn between wanting the ability to have reciproity in the states I travel in and the “allowing” the goverment to regulate another constitutioal right we should already be allowed. There are pros and cons on both sides. I’m still not sure which side I want to come down under. Not sure if I’d want a ‘national’ license to carry if it was decreed to be how it evolved. I’d prefer my home state to be the issuing body. With the different levels of requirements not sure if that would ever happen.

    It’s a tough nut to crack and I’m sure it’s gonna take a while to sort it all out

  21. Dear Mas,

    According to the Illinois State Police website,in Illinois you are guilty of Unlawful Use of Weapons if you carry or possess a firearm in any vehicle or concealed on or about your person,but this does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet the following conditions….
    1. Broken down in a non-functioning state
    or
    2. Are not readily accessible
    or
    3. Are unloded and enclosed in a case,firearm carrying box,or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid FOID card.

    These exceptions were intended to legally allow gunowners to transport firearms to a a designated hunting or shooting site,but many have used it as it a loophole to get around Illinois’ no CCW laws by carrying a semi-auto in a fanny pack(“enclosed in a case”)with a loaded mag in the case,but not in the gun(“unloaded”).Prosecution of cases using this this loophole as a way to carry in Illlinois has had mixed results. The way the law is written does indeed provide a loophole of sorts although that was never intended and I have no desire to do such a thing myself and would advise against it to any other Illinois residents.

    But,what about an unloaded,encased gun in the car? If your Girlfriend/Wife was an Illinois resident with a valid FOID and was going to be driving out of town by herself,would you want her to keep an unloaded gun in a case in the glove box or center rest console “just in case”?

    Thank you.
    Respectfullly,
    DW

  22. Alas, Dan, her reading of that (and mine) is that the pistol cannot be within immediate reach of the driver.
    best,
    Mas (who reminds you that neighboring Indiana accepts refugees)

  23. Mas,

    I left out the word ONE in the exception subsection,which is probably the most important part.It should read…….

    …….Unlawful use of Weapons does not apply to or affect transport of weapons that meet ONE of the following conditions…..

    1.)Broken down in a non-functioning state

    OR

    2.)Are nor readily accessible

    Or
    3.)Are unloaded & enclosed in a case,firearm carrying box,or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid FOID card.

    So,as I understand it,you must meet only one of those conditions to be in compliance.Change your opinion any?

    http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/

    Thanks,
    DW

  24. Mas I have a purpose here so bear with me. As the new year rings in, I have been catching up on my web/paper reading. I read your analysis of store owner Lance Thomas in American Handgunner from a couple of years back and watched the TV episode of him on youtube. I am about half way thru your Gun Digest Combat Handgunnery book. I also read the following latest episodes of the 21st century Mexican revolution happening as we speak:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091223/ts_nm/us_mexico_drugs

    http://www.financialnewsusa.com/news/wife-of-slain-el-monte-civic

    Within the last couple of weeks my middle class neighborhood has been “tagged” in several prominent locations by MS13. I have also read that gangs in America are expanding at an incredible rate. The thought of a latin gang having “claimed” my neighborhood as “their” territory stuns me.

    While as a kid I read of the experiences of Bill Jordan, Askins, Keith et. al. on the border (so its been a tough area for quite a while) I feel that it is now getting out of hand. Plus these aren’t your old time thugs. It is funded, sophisticated and even quasi political.

    Ok, so what is your question? Here it is. I would like to hear your thoughts on this spread of extreme violence and cancer. I expect it to come across the border shortly in its most virulent form (if not already, as Arizona is experiencing). I don’t hesitate to say that with military trained and armed components of these gangs operating freely and mercilessly against the populace, I am scared for this nation. Are we devolving into something straight out of Mad Max? What are us regular joe’s to do? I never expected to see such a thing happen in my lifetime.

    As always, much thanks for all you do.

  25. Mas,

    It is very encouraging to have someone with your LE background on our side.

    I truly hope that one day we will see nation-wide reciprocity, perhaps as an endorsement on one’s drivers license. I’ve always thought it rather odd that we are permitted to drive anywhere in the country with a drivers license issued by our home state, but we are not trusted with our state issued CCW permits.

    Especially when one considers that driving a car is a privelage, not a fundamental natural right, and more lives are lost annually to automobile accidents than firearms.

    JC

  26. Mr. Ayoob
    My name is Terry Branch, and I am a Viet Nam Vet, and lately a lot of things have me worried. I feel that there are a lot of people out there that just aren’t paying attention.
    Our President “I feel” is trying to get us to turn our country over to people that I just don’t trust.
    Being a Vet I have weapons, a few if you know what I mean. I practice at least 3 times a week, keeping my eye in good shape.
    I hate to think that one day I will have to use these skills that I have been sharpening, but being an American I also feel I need to protect myself and my family. Are there other people in Oregon doing the same thing as me? And if so how can I get in touch with them. I know that people who think like I do need to be close and stay in touch. I live on 160 acres in the middle of BLM land, so for me shooting is not a problem. I just don’t like the feeling that I may be the only one here worrying about this government.
    Thanks for letting me vent
    Terry Branch

  27. Ted, you ain’t the only one getting nervous.

    Long Island Mike, I think we’re a LONG way from Mad Max. Or an unorganized Red Dawn, for that matter. More of my friends who live along the Border are making a point of carrying guns, but they’re not exactly expecting an apocalypse.

    Right now, I think we have more to worry about in terms of low-level but incremental increases in crime due to the economy, and running afoul of dope dealers shooting other dope dealers in the Border towns. I’ll be teaching down that way in a few months, and as always when in those environs, I’ll spend some extra time talking with the local cops and insiders to get the lay of the land. If I see anything disturbing, I’ll report it here.

    Personally, I’m thinking more in terms of being politically active as the mid-term elections approach, than stocking extra AR-15 magazines in the back of the SUV…but some think I’m an optimist.

    best,
    Mas

  28. Indiana does indeed welcome refugees. You can get a lifetime concealed carry. And we have a lot of nice shooting ranges.

  29. Hi Mas,

    I didn’t know you’d be in Chicago – if you’d had the time, my wife Anne and I would have loved to have the two of you for a nice holiday visit. Though we live in what is one of the most left-wing areas of an already socialist city, you would have been pleasantly surprised to find that our little 6 unit condo contains an island of sensible, conservative people, several of whom hold out of state carry permits. We’re all quietly waiting for the Supreme Court to set things in the right direction for our city, and for a nationwide reciprocity law to make us able to legally defend ourselves here.

    Best wishes toward a great new year,

    John Mohan

    P.S. I can relate to the comfort you feel regarding carrying two .45s, as I’ve been know to carry three. Perhaps not comfortable, but definitely comforting.