1. I’d go for a combination of both. They think the public is that gullible. They probably also believe that the message sells. If nothing else, they get their Overton Window moment and move the debate along. In either case, they can’t let a good (from their policy perspective) atrocity to two go to waste.

    It’d be nice if they did ride that horse to the polls and the electorate delivered another 1994 election. On the other hand, that was a generation ago. Ben Franklin’s comment about “Those who would trade Liberty for security will soon find they have neither.” was a couple hundred years ago.

    Having studied polls decades ago, I have deep distrust of those showing XY% in favor of universal background checks. And much else that most polls allege.

    • OOPS! With a panel of the 9th Circuit Court putting a stay on the California magazine ban, (IIRC, on Heller/Mcdonald grounds) things might get real interesting on that front.

  2. Recent polls show how ignorant the mainstream low information voters are, when it comes to firearms. I can’t get too upset with them too much, because they are pounded, and pounded by the liberal gun hating media, with misinformation every day. Even the talking heads at Fox News, call all semiautomatic AR-15s and AK-47s “assault weapons.” All the one hundred million lawful gun owners, need to call, write, email, or deliver in person, their representatives and President Trump, to reject ANY gun control bills.

  3. “Bartender, I’ll have a Beto O’Rourke, please.”

    “Uh, how do you make one of those?”

    “Just give me a glass of cheap, bottom-barrel Irish whiskey, and we’ll both pretend it’s top-shelf tequila.”

    There. Fixed it.

  4. In all seriousness, though, the Left hates “mass-incarceration” of criminals and future Left voters (but I repeat myself).

    Mass-incarceration of gun owners, they are 100% A-OK with.

    Free speech protections and voting rights for felons and violent domestic terrorists. Silencing and incarceration for conservatives.

    They gripe about 100,000 illegal immigrants — detained for breaking the law — being housed in a space designed for 40,000 and how that’s “inhumane” (and ICE should be defunded, which would decrease the available space but not the workload, as if that will make it better).

    But the prospects of throwing 20 MILLION gun owners into a prison system designed to accommodate ~2 million gives them a tingle running up their legs (and what do they propose to do with the 2 million convicts already behind bars to make room for us, hmmm?).

    You can’t make this stuff up, and you can’t reason with these people. It’s long been a meme on the Right that “liberals can’t math”, but this goes far beyond a lack of arithmetic acumen. This is hatred of opposing ideas so deep, they’ll toss aside their values and human compassion to punish their opponents.

    And that’s what it is. They no longer seek justice or consensus; they seek to punish.

  5. You Funny Man! Just bought 2 more of those nasty long guns; actually one is a 10″ model.
    And one other thing: if you look up the definition of “beto” you find it is Latin slang for big member. Pretty well sums it up.

  6. After 25 years of both military and law enforcement have never felt so distant and disheartened from government than I am now. Gun control laws do not only effect the private citizens that have not taken an oath but we who have and are active duty. Many Officers have been arrested for failure to turn in band weapons. Yet a growing amount of younger LEO feel that gun control is the right thing to do, most possibly due to there feel and lust for authority. I can see the distance between pro-gun and rights cops and pro-cops groups at the union meetings. I personally resigned my position as Vice-President of my lodge and have stopped going, both one cared. So what am I to do with my 82 weapons when they become illegal. Maybe use these skills as an infantry soldier and SWAT instructor. IDK. God Bless.

  7. I am blessed to live in Washington. Blessed to be able to own guns still.
    The legal definition of an assault weapon has been fundamentally changed forever in this state. Now they have a bigger stepping stone to further restrict our rights.
    The anti gunners will springboard off that this coming elections season.
    The only thing is. The laws we had before were not enforced. ……But new ones will be better? Let’s put the blame where it belongs. The mental health system and the prosecutors who let people off with a slap on the wrist.
    I spoke to Mass at the MAG80 class in July at FAS. I said I’d be lucky to be able to own a sling shot, and not be legislated into being a felon in 5 years. I think the time line is getting shorter by the day on that one.

  8. Perhaps the “Beto” is Irish whiskey that identifies as tequila?

    It’s amazing that so many in our own government apparently see law-abiding gun owners as criminals. One person commits a criminal act, 110 million did not- and yet we are ALL punished. It’s like the teacher that punishes the entire class for the misbehavior of one student.

    There is no way they can possibly believe a ban including mass confiscation could work. How could it be enforced? My guess is that they will get enough gun owners on camera surrendering their rifles and hope others follow suit out of fear. Even if there is 5% compliance (exact numbers might be impossible to count)- the politicians could say, “Look we did something. We are all safer now.”

    Once it becomes clear that this is a failure- on to the next restriction. And the shrill attacks on us, the NRA, etc increase in intensity. And as is the pattern, even those politicians who gave us their word on protecting the 2A will cave.

    That is why this gun control push must be beaten back. State a clear contingency to elected officials: vote for gun control- we vote for your primary challenger. And people need to seriously consider noncompliance if it does pass until, hopefully, SCOTUS takes up a challenge.

    When will knives be banned? Hell, we can all own full propane tanks and fertilizer! I guess they are not “assault propane tanks” or “assault fertilizer.”

    Not yet at least.

    • It’s like the teacher that punishes the entire class for the misbehavior of one student.

      Except for one thing: The class can shun or get some retribution from the misbehaving student. In another context, military drill instructors also will punish the squad for the offenses of one recruit, and expect the squad will right the wrong. It usually works and the individual and squad are both stronger as a result.

      But what are we supposed to do when 110 million of us are being collectively punished for the misbehavior of one nutjob, and the nutjob did not survive his misbehavior?

      Yes, they caught the El Paso guy, but that’s a rarity with mass-killings; most are like the Dayton guy and die at the scene, either by their own hands or by responding LEOs.

      We have no out, no relief, other than to oust those who seek to punish us all collectively.

  9. Everything that the American Left says is a lie. The biggest lie of all is when leftist politicians, like Beto O’Rourke, declare that they want to “do something” to end mass-shootings.

    In fact, the American Left has done everything in their power to create a favorable environment that promotes these mass-shootings. Consider this:

    1) Their welfare-state programs have created a climate of dependency which has destroyed the family structure. As a result, millions of young men grow up without a father or any kind of positive male role-model.

    2) Their left-wing controlled schools have taught millions of young men that they are worthless. That they are, by nature, sexist and racist scum. The left does everything in their power to teach a perverted history of America that totally destroys any self-worth in young men especially if they are white.

    3) Their left-wing controlled media companies produce a constant stream of propaganda, violent Hollywoood movies and violent video games that desensitize young men to violence.

    4) The left promotes weak border security and pharmaceutical drug production. The result is that these young men are exposed to a flood of mind-altering drugs (both illegal and legal).

    5) The left-wing media then goes on to glorify mass-murderers in the hopes of creating copy-cats. Look at how many mass-murderers have been inspired by the Columbine Shooting. Note how the left, especially propagandist Michael Moore, worked to promote and publicize that shooting.

    6) Finally, the Left promotes the creation “Gun-Free Zones” that make perfect hunting grounds for budding mass-murderers.

    Given this environment, engineered entirely by left-wing government policies and left-wing controlled companies, is anyone now surprised when these mass-murders occur? It is a testament to the basic decency of human-beings that we don’t have more of them. Although these left-wing policies have other negative effects, such as high incarceration, drug addiction and suicide rates, it is mainly the lunatic fringe that becomes so destabilized as to plan and executed a mass-murder of innocent strangers. Note how many of them publish a video of their murders or a “manifesto” of their motivations. Read any of these manifestos and the left-wing education and indoctrination will pour off the page.

    President Obama’s 2008 campaign theme was “Hope and Change”. This was a lie too. In actual fact, Leftists have always operated under the principle of “Destabilize and then seize Control”. All across the World, we have seen Marxist movements ferment chaos as a prelude to the seizure of political power. It happened in Russia, China, Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. Now, the same tactic is at play in the U.S.A and in Europe too.

    The fact is that the leftists have created (programmed) these mass-murderers and they have no intention of stopping them. Indeed, whenever anyone proposes solutions that might actually help (such as eliminating gun-free zones and placing better security in schools), the left rushes to shut these down. They let everyone know, real fast, that the only acceptable solution (for them) is universal disarmament of American Citizens.

    The American Left knows that America can never be transformed from a Representative Republic to a Socialist State as long as the 2nd Amendment is still operating and the American Public is still armed. So, the Left ferments these mass-shootings as a method to motivate Americans to give up their 2nd Amendment Rights and be disarmed. California, which has already become a one-party controlled Socialist State, is their model for the transformation of the rest of America.

    So, when Beto stands on his hind-legs and spouts firearms-prohibition propaganda to “stop mass-shootings”, it is not just hypocrisy. It is a bald-faced lie. The American Left has no intention of helping to shut these murders down. They welcome these mass-murders as the most effective motivational tool they have to undermine the 2nd Amendment and disarm America.

    They won’t lift a finger to stop these shootings until disarmament is accomplished, and they have seized total power, and transformed America into a Socialist-Marxist State. Only then will they act to restore order. However, their order will be enforced by interment camps, re-education centers and firing squads. All of which will be under the control of their Secret Police!

    Anyone who believes what Beto or any other leftists says (about anything) is a FOOL!

    • TN_MAN,

      Right on as usual. The Left’s tactic is, create chaos, then tell people you are the hero who will bring order and prosperity for all in a way that is fair. We just need to submit to being ruled by their superior minds. And the people believe them! Half of America’s voters keep voting for them in spite of what we see in Venezuela, Detroit and San Francisco. The quality of life in NYC will continue to go down as we see cops being mistreated there.

      When you are deluded by a dream, contrary facts are ignored, because the dream is so beautiful. When reality finally forces you to wake up, you realize your dream did not conform to reality. Now you have to face the consequences, and the pleasure your dream gave you is gone. I’m sure the German people went through these stages during the years 1933–1945.

  10. They don’t care whether we are stupid or smart.
    They want what they want which is a Brave New World with unarmed and defenseless citizens cowed by an all-powerful and authoritarian nanny-state government that determines what is best for everyone, particularly the ruling elite.
    They also think, despite all evidence to the contrary, that thay is what the greaat majority of the people (voters) want too. They only hang out with each other and continuously reaffirm their own beliefs, thinking they are the majority because they never talk to anyone they disagree with, and when they unfortunately meet someone who doesn’t agree with them, they instantly label them as psychotic racists and dismiss them as insane.

  11. Make no mistake, a large portion of the American public are stupid. These are the same folks who put Obama in the White House not once but twice! As I have said before, liberals are evil and/or stupid. They either hate conservatives and moderates, and want to do us harm or they don’t know who’s telling the truth and what is right or wrong. Left wing propaganda expert Michael Moore once inadvertently told the truth when he said the majority of Americans are dumb. That certainly applied to voters who cast their ballots for Obama and the previous Democrat presidents of the past 100 years.

    One of the most dangerous creatures is the uninformed American voter. Another is the malevolent person who wants a leader intent on destroying our nation and transforming it into a Socialist worker’s paradise as envisioned by the diabolical Karl Marx and his fanatical and violent Communist followers. Gun control is always the first step in creating a tyranny. People who have the means to protect themselves from government goons and forcibly remove power hungry politicians must be disarmed before they can be enslaved. Once the Second Amendment is eradicated, the others can be made void too, as the subjects will have no means to defend them, at least not without sustaining an overwhelming loss of life to obtain enough weapons from government sources to stage a successful revolution.

  12. I do not own any CF semiautomatic rifles, but I will fully oppose a ban on such firearms. The democrats are out enemies.

    • If they succeed in banning CF semi-auto rifles, it won’t be long before RF semi-autos face the chopping block.

      Bless you, sir, for standing up for others’ rights before yours are under direct attack.

  13. With all due respect to those past or present Law Enforcement Officers, who decry the current attempt to usurp the natural and Constitutional rights of citizens, who while harming no one, believe in the right of self defense, did you not participate in or at the least ignore, the contribution of LEO’s in depriving citizens of the right to self medicate or pursue happiness in a non approved way, in the “War On Some Drugs”?

    Today, these ignorant leftist totalitarians are merely following the examples, set for them by a previous era of LEO’s, persecuting “others” whom they “believe” are wrong in their choices, again, even though the persecuted are harming no one. Sure, some drugs can be harmful if misused (even those your doctor gives you) and sure, some guns can be harmful if misused (even those your government gives you), so should we just persecute everyone, even those who have harmed no one and have no intention of harming others. I said no to the War On Some Drugs and I say NO to the war on some guns!

    To paraphrase Rev. Martin Niemöller, “First they came for the druggies and I participated because I wasn’t one but then they came for me and my guns”.

    “The root of all evil, is the desire of some to control the lives or property of others”. MamaLiberty

    The names and type of property have changed but the evil is the same. This is the hypocrisy that is often overlooked.

  14. The best practical definition of Liberty, that I ever read, comes from the Old Testament Book of Micah. Specifically, this verse:

    MICAH 4:4 – Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid….

    To the American Left, the Peace of Micah is INTOLERABLE! The thought that someone could sit quietly and live their lives in peace, without the Government CONTROLLING every move they make, every item in their possession, every dollar in their bank account and every thought in their head, is intolerable to the micro-managing Left.

    Indeed, the Left’s entire program is built upon “making people afraid” because, without fear, there is no control. The Left’s entire program is a series of “fears” designed to manipulate people into doing the Left’s bidding. Here is a just a handful of examples:

    1) Be afraid – You must turn over your healthcare to us (big leftist Government). Otherwise, you will be caught without health care and you will DIE or, at the very least, be bankrupt.

    2) Be afraid – You must give us complete control of the economy. Otherwise, without our management, Global Warming will destroy this planet and you will DIE a horrible death and there will be no future for your children.

    3) Be afraid – You are surrounded by HATERS. America is full of racists, sexists, homophobes, etc. Give use the POWER that we crave to CONTROL speech and to punish our political opponents for their hate crimes and we will protect you from these HATERS! Otherwise, the HATERS will TARGET you and you will DIE under their cruelty.

    4) Be afraid – The country is flooded with guns. They are being used by gun-men and criminals to TARGET you. Give us the power to nullify the 2nd Amendment and we will CONFISCATE all these guns so as to PROTECT you. Otherwise, the GUNMEN will target you and you will be shot and you will DIE!

    5) Be afraid – You are exposed to unhealthy things like tobacco, too much salt, sugary foods, plastic straws, and a lack of exercise. Give us CONTROL to regulate everything you do (to be your nanny!) and we will safely regulate your life for you. Otherwise, you will suffer from diseases such as diabetes and cancer and you will DIE a horrible death!

    6) Be afraid – Your children will, without our guidance, grow up to be criminals and they will HATE you. Let us educate and indoctrinate your children and we will see that their minds are programmed correctly. After all, it “takes a village” to properly raise a child. You are incompetent to do it yourself without our MANAGEMENT to help you!

    Yes, indeed, the entire program of the Left is to “make people afraid”. Without fear, there is no control. Leftists are “Control Freaks”, so the very thought of not being in control, of not ruling by fear, is HATEFUL to the Left.

    The Peace of Micah can never be obtained in a world where Left-Wing ideology is a significant force. The two concepts are diametrically opposed!

  15. TN_MAN,

    Thank you for that excellent definition of Liberty, which I was not familiar with. I have always accepted Mr. Jefferson’s definition as the best.

    “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” Thomas Jefferson

    In past years I thought that this old saying was true; “The left wants to make you DO GOOD, while the right wants to make you BE GOOD.” They both want to control but I think both sides of the totalitarian coin (left and right) have decided they want to make everyone BE GOOD and DO GOOD, each according to their own definitions of course.

    Back and forth they weave their web, each strand further reducing our “Rightful Liberty”. Removing the Right To Keep and Bear Arms, will be the last major obstacle to full totalitarian control.

    Mas, Thank you for hosting such fruitful and relevant discussions as you do!

    • Tahn – You are correct in that there are totalitarians on the extreme Right of the political spectrum just as there are (clearly) totalitarians on the extreme Left. Liberty and democracy can only exist in the narrow, center-band between the extremists on both sides.

      The reason that I focus on the Leftist totalitarians, in my comments, is because I consider them to be, by far, the greatest danger to America today. Despite the constant efforts, by propagandists on the Left, to paint America as a racist, ultra-nationalistic land where Right-Wing extremists are a constant threat, I view this as just another of the Left’s lies. While there certainly are Right-Wing extremists in America, they are a tiny fraction of the population. Let’s face it, whenever the KKK or Neo-Nazis hold a rally, more left-wing reporters (looking for fodder to support their propaganda) show up then actual Right-Wingers.

      The Left does everything to build Right-wing extremists into a threat because they are constantly seeking to justifying their seizure of power. They claim that they need totalitarian powers so as to “protect” us from the crazies on the Right. However, the truth is that, currently, the Left is far more crazy and totalitarian then the Right could ever dream of being.

      With their control of most of the media, most of the education system, large parts of the Government, many Federal Judges, silicon valley and much of big business, the extreme Left is the MONSTER that threatens liberty in America today.

      So, if it seems like I only attack the Left and ignore the dangers of the extreme Right, it is not because I approve of Right-Wing extremism. I simply see the extreme Left as a thousand-times greater danger to our Republic then anybody on the Right in today’s world.

    • @ Tahn – One more comment about Liberty, if I may. I said above, that Micah gave the best “practical” definition.

      Most definitions of Liberty are like Jefferson’s (which you quoted). They are definitions that depend upon high-level generalizations. They include concepts such as Freedom of Action (Free Will), the Rights of the Individual, and morality (as in there being a higher moral law then man-made legal constructs). You noticed that Jefferson touched upon all these points.

      In contrast, Micah gave us a simple image of Liberty. An image of an individual stilling at peace in his or her garden. Sitting quietly, on their own property, among arbors of grape vines and rows of fruit trees. Sitting without fear. Either of physical danger (that someone will come to harm or rob them) or of theoretical fears that someone is using to manipulate and enslave them.

      Micah gives an image that is so simple and practical that even a six-year (6) old child can understand it.

      Jefferson’s theoretical, high-level definition is much more complex. I don’t mean to imply that his definition is bad. It is an excellent high-level definition but it is theoretical rather than practical. Most six-year old children would not understand Jefferson’s definition. Indeed, I think that there are many adults, either through ignorance or willful scorn, who do not understand it. Especially in today’s America where so many young adults are (deliberately) indoctrinated in left-wing ideology and are never taught critical-thinking skills.

      So, I don’t say that the definition given by Micah is, universally, the best. Other definitions, including Jefferson’s, have much to recommend them. However, I do find (as I noted above) that Micah gave the best “practical” or “real-world” definition of Liberty that I ever read.

  16. The answer to your question is easy, Mas, they’re really that stupid. These anti-gun politicians have not a cursory understanding of the Constitution, nor do they really care what it stands for. The level of ignorance manifesting in the world of late is incomprehensible.