PREDICTABLE DRONING V. MEANINGFUL LESSONS

Excellent take on the situation. This shows us a few things

1) That family and friends are the best indicators and preventors of violence through proactive measures. As you said it was time and fate that didn’t stop him. I’ve also heard that th LAPD was aware of him by his family days before, it was the suicide text that kicked them into gear to find him.

2) While it is horrible this TSA agent was killed, considering the amount of people in the airport constantly and the target it is, a 11 gap between shootings goes to show that violence isn’t as big as the news makes it out to be

3) A man got into a secured naval facility in the most surveilled city in the country with a standard shotgun and nearly killed 10 people and this individual came into LAX with and AR and one died. This shows that the maligned balck rifle isn’t the killing machine it is purported to be compared to other weapons.

3) The underlying issue with EVERY one of these shooters seems to be mental distress and psychiatric disturbances. This is never addressed in the mainstream discussion only the object in their hand.

You mention the “don’t snitch” mentality as opposed to one where authorities and the general body civic feel comfortable cooperating with each other.

IMHO, that “don’t snitch” culture is largely a response to the heavy handed enforcement of laws that forbid adults from consensual conduct that harms no one (who hasn’t consented). The drug war has driven a wedge between law enforcement and the general public. The war mentality has bleed over from drug enforcement to taint other forms of policing.

There are now law enforcement officers who claim that American cops face the same dangers on patrol as our soldiers do in Afghanistan. [1]

There was recently a SWAT style raid of an animal clinic. [2] When asked why the raid was conducted in that style, a supervisor explained that they just go ahead and kick in doors in drugs cases, so why should they do anything differently here.

Given this militarization of police forces, I think that some people are afraid to reach out to law enforcement when a loved one is having mental issues due to a fear that the first response to such an issue will be violent.

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/18/swat-cop-says-american-ne_n_3776501.html

[2] http://www.wisn.com/news/armed-agents-raid-animal-shelter-for-baby-deer/-/9373668/21272108/-/wvh1n7z/-/index.html

The common thread or “elephant in the room” are the psychotropic drugs extensively used to treat perceived mental conditions. Modern psychiatric care is not counselling, but tragically is more Pharmacology. Collectivly we must recognize that psychiatric care is but masking a monster. Meanwhile political pundits ludicrously blame inanimate objects as an agenda item. We the people need to return to our roots: faith, family, honor and integrity.

I think the ideal would be to simultaneously foster the everybody looking out for each other mentality and a drastic shift away from zero tolerance policy. The combination would be enabling an environment of actual safety, growth, and responsibility. It would also allow disturbed children (or adults for that matter) to get the help they need and avoid overly excessive penalty for the kids who are just being dumb kids. Punishment equal to the crime, so to speak.

Quote: “The kid with the messed-up head got the psychiatric care he needed.”

Now, if we could just do the same for that messed up kid at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in D.C.

Just heard about this one a few minutes ago.

I’d be quite curious how a law requiring reporting of mental illness (or any crime even?) by friends and family who knew or should have known would go. I imagine it would be more helpful than more gun control?

It seems like most mass shootings have warning signs and people either fail to recognize them or simply ignore them. Perhaps if people who knew but failed to act could be held partially responsible? A law like this could be abused by an over-zealous prosecutor but I think any law is subject to that…upside a law like this might help motivate people to report stuff sooner.

Oh and another lesson that most are going to miss from this shooting… airports are gun-free zones… just like the Aurora movie theatre… Columbine…

Massad,

You make a very good point regarding the “don’t snitch” attitude. It has even gotten to the point where there are tee shirts that parrot this attitude. And then, the same people wearing these shirts complain about violent crime and that the police don’t do anything.
A real life example of the quote by Edmund Burke, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”.

It’s encouraging to know people do listen to others making threats and act accordingly. If we as a society would take mental illness seriously enough to get people the necesary help they need and do away with gun-free zones we could eliminate most mass shootings, if not all. The problem is that some of the powers to be are more interested in disarming the citizens and less about saving lives. Therefore, those of us that believe in the second ammendment need to do all we can to preserve our rights.

Now days it’s all about deflecting responsibility onto someone else… Especially in the school systems… Zero tolerance and all that, but NEVER reporting (at any level through college), any problems on campus…

The school in CT should be held up as a GOOD exemplar and more should follow their lead!

Hard to fathom why these shooters do it, how their brain works so differently than normal. It doesn’t seem to me to be sociopathic. Much easier to understand Fienstien, pure lust for control and power.
To bad the authorities were one step behind. also to bad, if what I read is correct, that the airport police had pulled the armed guards from the security lines in favor of roving patrols a few months earlier.

Those “quiet” things don’t make news. Even if the prevention of a shooting is announced, it’s not dramatic enough to keep attention and it certainly messes with some agendas!

Agreed Mas. My concern is that at some point–and I think people smarter than me could chart it out within a year or two–the statists are going to have just the right atrocity to pass a law or set of laws that will make the 1994 crime bill look like the good old days of liberty in the US. Hope I’m wrong.

What’s a good answer as to why:
Man stabs several people with a knife: focus on man.
Woman kills several other by running them down with a car: focus on woman.
Man drinks excessively; drives drunk; kills a family; focus on man.
Rapists strangles several women with a rope; focus on man.
Man stabs several people with scissors; focus on man.
Woman sets a fire with gasoline killing several people; focus on woman.
Man builds and explodes bomb killing several people; focus on man.
Man shoots & kills several people; focus on gun.
Why is this?

Good article. The “don’t snitch” culture is instilled really young and we’ve been fighting it with our 6-year-old who is in 1st grade.

Even though it may not be part of the school culture it may indeed be part of the student culture. Kids learn really early that if they don’t want to get into trouble for something then they shouldn’t talk about it.

As a high-school teacher i fight this every day. I try to explain to my students that it’s not about who’s right or wrong. Things like this are for the safety and health of everyone in the school.

I’ve reported a few things during my time as a teacher that students talk about in class. For some reason they don’t seem to think that I’m listening to what’s being said or that I don’t care, for some reason. They learn real fast, the hard way, that that’s no the case.

I know the schools have been working diligently through there SRO programs with the officers in the schools working closely building relationships with the kids identifying problems before they start. But nothing with adults.

But as good citizens we can raise awareness that if we see any warning signs of people we know go out of our way to try to get them help, pay them a visit, talk to them, try to deescalate before a major issue…
We need to tighten up the mental health reporting as well. Just look at the shooter in Aurora Co movie theater as an example, Holmes talked to mental health professionals and dropped clues red flags… yet no law enforcement was ever was notified.

per my comment from yesterday…Guns and Ammo editor going wobbly: “Guns and Ammo Editor Supports Gun Control in Editorial Feature for December Issue” You have GOT to be kidding me.

The 4th point by Richard Morgan above is a valid one, and, sadly, one that isn’t being addressed enough. The decade of the brain in the 90’s led to some important finding about how mental illness originates and can be treated, but more work is needed in this field to fully understand the underlying causes and effective treatments for mental illness. Because many of the state institutions of by-gone days have been shuttered for good, many of the mentally ill find themselves in the jails or on the streets, both of which offer no good treatment. The stigma associated with being a person suffering from mental illness continues to discourage those who need help from seeking the help they desperately need; or worse, discouraging loved ones from seeking help for their suffering parent, sibling, friend, or relative. After more than 10 years of war, many of our young men and women in the armed forces are suffering from PTSD or other mental illness. For those that are interested in learning more about mental illness, please visit the National Alliance of Mental Illness (NAMI) website at http://www.nami.org

Capt Bob got it right. And even more so, killing one with a gun is some how worse than stabbing to death two–explain that.

In the 1700’s the insane were chained in jail before they hurt anyone.

In the 1800’s they were send to asylums, essentially self sufficient communities. Care was mainly custodial, but some people recovered.

In the early to mid 1900’s they were sent to the same establishments, but a) were subject to some bad experimental treatments, and b) suffered privation due to poor funding, esp. during WWII. But, mass-murder hardly existed, even when anyone could buy guns mail order, so long as they beat their mom to the mail box.

Starting in the 1960’s the Feds continued the assault on the states and roused that states get out of the asylum business and let the Feds pay the insane disability each month, and hand out Thorazine at the government clinic. Thorazine reduces symptoms, but it cures nothing. They stop taking it, and are worse than before.

Since then, the homeless population shot up, mass shootings started, the crime rate went up (and stabilized when the last wave of deinstitutionalization took place in the 1990’s).

Now in the 2000’s we lock up the insane in jail after they hurt other people. Insane people and society is worse off now than 300 years ago. But it is the gift that keeps on giving to the Nanny State.

What concerns me is how easily this pro-active attitude mutates into the ‘zero-tolerance’ nonsense we’ve been seeing so much of. How can common sense and good judgement be maintained in the process?

Greg in the third post down hit the nail on the head, too many drugs given out like candy.

Also I’ve notice when people call in to the police that their son or other is having a “mental problem” the cops just show up and shoot them, well I guess its a quick answer to the problem.

Captain Bob:

You asked why people blame guns for violent crimes, when other weapons are ignored. My guess is that country people and city people have totally different attitudes when it comes to firearms. When a country person hears the word “gun,” he probably associates it with hunting and good times shooting. The country person probably knows how to shoot guns, and certainly knows (non-criminal) people who own guns. City people probably don’t own guns and have never even held a gun, unless they were in the military. When a city person hears the word “gun,” he or she probably associates the word with criminal activity, and Hollywood images of people falling backward after being hit by one bullet come to their minds. They would be shocked to learn that 80% of people shot with handguns live through the experience. City people dominate politics by their vast numbers. California would be a conservative state except for the cities. Pennsylvania is dragged to the left by people in Philadelphia, Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.

Jacob Morgan:

Thanks for the history lesson on mental illness. I agree with everything you wrote, but I want to try to answer the question, “Why were the mentally ill let out of asylums in the 1960s?” Before you fight something, it is beneficial if you can make that something weak. Imagine a fort filled with strong warriors. Now surround that fort, and don’t let them have any food. When their food runs out, you will have an easier time defeating starved soldiers than if they were well fed. Now if you are a communist or statist bent on bringing your vision of utopia to the world, you need to destroy the current capitalist system which is in place now. How do you do that? You de-stabilize everything you can. De-stabilize the family, divide the races, the generations, the sexes. Invite immigrants in from alien cultures and keep them separate. You want to promote division, not unity. If you can let criminals out of prison, they will terrify the society and the people will beg for more government control. Same thing with the insane. Let them out among society and they will help to de-stabilize society by being a drain on resources, and some of them will become vicious criminals. The people will want help and safety, and will submit to more government control and intrusion in order to have a “safe” community.

Liberalism is like a slow cancer or rot in a tree. Once a tree has been rotted out from the inside, you can push it over more easily, or just wait for a strong wind, and the sick tree will fall by itself.

One of the major reasons this type of crime has shot up is because the media make anti-heros out of the perpetrators.

It is called the copycat effect and is well documented:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/01/stop-school-shootings-hold-media.html

Why do folks hate the TSA so much?

Mas,
I would agree with your premise. Contrary to Hollywood, people don’t just suddenly snap. Instead, there is a long trail of breadcrumbs that indicate someone is a threat. Dealt with something similar in one of my classes (as instructor) where I had to report a student to the campus police after getting students to talk about his stalking on them. Gave information and names to the campus police who acted promptly. Not going to go into details but needless to say, I was later confronted by that student who obtained the police report via FOIA in my office. Still look over my shoulder and am very aware of classroom/campus security issues at my school. Found out via other students coming forward that this student’s behavior was well known by others who gave me additional very troubling information.

For these reasons, I have been trying to address these issues in my college and dept. The VA Tech Review panel report of those shootings found at http://tinyurl.com/kmu6odh blamed an overly cautious interpretation of FERPA and HIPAA by faculty, students, and medical officials for the shooter’s privacy which included mistakenly believing that even classroom conversations were covered under FERPA hindered removing him from school. FERPA narrowly applies only to things like the student’s address/contact information, academic schedule, financial records, academic records, and test scores. It does not apply to conversations in class, conversation with other students, and other interactions in public spaces. The Va Tech Review committee believed that had students and faculty felt free to report the shooter’s disturbed remarks to others, then action might have prevented the tragedy that occurred.

Yes, I believe responsible adults and especially those in positions of authority need to be aware of danger signs and also peers of troubled youth should report their concerns.

However, this is 2013 not say pre 1970 when youthful interest in firearms and hunting was generally considered normal, even healthy. Do we want a child who may doodle pictures of firearms reported? What about a child who, horror of horrors, takes a copy of a gun magazine to school, perhaps with article by Mas?

I suppose my concern is there are not enough balanced adults out there. Rather we have a lot of adult and people in authority who have listened too much to the likes of Sarah Brady, etc. And this can be a danger to the liberty of innocent children. Children who probably now share the same interests of many of the readers of this blog, when they were a similar age.

I missed this post before. Very good points here.

One thing all the anti-gunners always “forget” to pay attention to is the cases where shooters are prevented from killing or stopped early. The reason these stories get so much attention is that they are so horrible. The same thing happened with Sandy Hook, 2 weeks later a man went on a would-be rampage, was stopped by a security guard, and ended up only shooting one person. Nobody talks about that incident because it “wasn’t that bad”.

The focus on the “assault weapon” is reminiscent to me of early scientists who believed in spontaneous generation. Once proven wrong, they stick to their guns, because it’s so hard for egomaniacs to admit they were wrong. The anti-gunners simply never give up, even when faced with obvious facts (the AWB did nothing to combat crime or reduce violence). I don’t hold out hope for CA, but I hope that overall, we can stave off these fanatics and vote them out until they get it’s not a winning cause.

“The “don’t snitch” culture is instilled really young and we’ve been fighting it with our 6-year-old who is in 1st grade.” And this hasn’t changed since I started school in 1958 – not in the ghetto, but in a middle class neighborhood. We soon learned that schools have lots of rules, many of which are silly, and they are run by people who are far from geniuses. So you keep your mouth shut about the little stuff. And then you also learn to keep your mouth shut about more important stuff, such as actually violent bullying, because the school authorities are ineffective at best in dealing with it, and at worst side with the bullies. I eventually came to the conclusion that the kind of kid who forms the bully’s cheering section is likely to grow up to be a school principal…

When you grow up it’s the cops you would call instead of a teacher – but there are definitely some bad apples there, and I’d be reluctant to involve the police for anything that isn’t looking like it will end in homicide, rape, or maiming.

One of the biggest problems we face in our society is this attitude of letting the professionals handle it. Fire? Let the fire fighters handle it. Someone is injured? The paramedics will help them. Natural disaster? “The authorities” will take care of things. While I’m not advocating leaving the professionals out of it, 9 times out of 10 the situation will be improved by a conscientious citizen stepping in and providing assistance until the professionals arrive. Many instances rely on a conscientious individual stepping in to alert the right people.

School violence is one of these cases. In almost every school shooting, there were warning signs early on. But most people are content to sit back and let the professionals take care of it. We need everyone to be willing to step forward and respond to crises in the making rather than wait for the professionals to step in (usually after the shooting starts).

It’s funny; I just read an opinion piece on that topic in the LA Times, of all places. The question was along the lines of ‘are family ties more important than the interest of the state?’ The article took no real position and just listed a few famous cases, like the Unabomber’s. It ended with the story of a boy who told on his father in the days of Stalinist Russia. The father was involved in some minor black market or subversive activities and was subsequently arrested and executed. An outraged mob soon retaliated against the little boy (who was made into a communist martyr) by killing him. Stalin’s own reaction? “How could the little pig betray his own blood?” How’s that for a complex issue?!

Tell you what… We, as a society, may be grateful to those who prevent catastrophes at the hands of their loved ones. And we may claim that they got those would-be criminals some ‘help’. But personally, I don’t think I would tell on someone very close unless it was to literally save them.

The responsibility of someone’s mental health and behavior lies square on the entourage’s shoulders first and they relieve themselves of that role by passing the buck to the authorities. I think that we should care about each other more and look for signs of trouble, instead of acting too busy to be a good parent or sibling and then all too ready to drop a dime on family. But the family structures broke down and Big Brother is often asked to come out of his ‘global village’ to step into private matters. Creepy.

It’s a pickle, though. I mean, what would you do if you were Hitler’s brother in 1939? Eh… you’d probably be a raving anti-Semite too and cheer him on.