Recent events around the country have raised lots of questions about defending oneself and family if caught up in one of the many riots.  I discussed that with Gila Hayes of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (ACLDN) in the August version of their newsletter, here.

In the same issue of the newsletter, ACLDN president briefly discusses the organization’s ongoing issues with the Washington State Insurance Commission, who don’t seem to realize that ACLDN isn’t about insurance at all.  Marty then segues into a class he and I teach together, of which we are both rather proud: the week-long Deadly Force Instructor course.  We have one scheduled for Washington State this coming November at Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS). The discussion is here Class registration is done through FAS.


  1. Although you would be the final authority, I think the class (which I registered for) is in November rather than September? 🙂

  2. Riots are the source of unanswerable questions. But as stated, avoid the area, if you know there’s trouble there is no reason to go in.
    If you unwittingly take a freeway exit into a riot and are blocked in by other cars, Detroit, Chicago, Portland I don’t feel there is a right answer but keeping the gun out of sight and hope an escape presents itself may save a persons neck, just don’t attract attention.
    Don’t allow yourself to be beaten senseless before using your weapon

    • If you accidentally drive into a riot from a freeway ramp, you will not be in Detroit. We do not have any. The Detroit PD got things under control the first 2 nights of relatively mild unrest and there has been nothing since. In addition, Mi is a Shall Issue State, and the Chief of the Detroit PD is a very vocal advocate of an armed citizenry. If you need to use your weapon for self-defense, which could very well happen from the rise in gang activity in Detroit, it is likely the legal consequences will be minimal. Detroit is NOT Chicago, thank God, and honest citizens are treated as such. And the level of street violence in most of Detroit is orders of magnitude less than Chicago, largely due to great cops like Chief Jim Craig and his Department.

  3. Excellent information. I particularly liked the comment about slightly lowering a window. If the window is just a bit down, it’s no longer as firmly braced and will be more difficult to break since it can flex more with impact.

    Been a long time since I’ve been near a riot. I’d be pleased if it stayed that way.

    I used to belong to a limited access website and one of our members was retired Hong Kong Police. They had some riot tactics that would seem applicable, if non PC here. However, being UK related, they’d be applied only after formal reading of the Riot Act*. One in particular targeted predators swimming in the sea of lawful protesters. They’d be shot by designated marksmen.

    *Seems quaint, and kinda explains the old expression, but there’d be a formal announcement that the gathering/incident has been declared in violation of The Riot Act and the full legal authority to suppress the riot would be in force. This included the use of lethal force.

    • Forgot to note that the “Riot Act” would be actually read (must have been short, how many would hear it might be arguable) before the announcement of violation and the command to cease, desist and disperse given.

  4. I am vastly more concerned about being attacked by federal thugs acting for no reason against mothers and grandmothers. Or against protestors who stood peacefully until trump ordered streets cleared so he could have a photo opt awkwardly holding a Bible. This is the terrorism I fear.

    • Herbert Glenn Nesmith,

      Then this indeed is your lucky day, for based on the scenarios you offer, you have absolutely nothing about which to be concerned, with the possible exception of a general lack of proper manners (likely not solely your own fault) as reflected in your use of “federal thugs” and your misspelling of President Trump’s name.

    • Wrong koolaid Herbert. Go find a riot. Shouldn’t be too hard to find. Just watch. The “federal thugs” you pointed out are reacting to everything they do, until there is a movement within those ranks. Do something instead of quarter-backing. Oh, sorry, you didn’t play football either!

    • Herbert, you’re a Dog Faced Pony Soldier! Go and stroke Joe Biden’s long blonde leg hairs until they stand up and jump on his lap.

    • I can hardly wait for schools to open again so children like Herbie won’t have so much free time to annoy adults on the ‘net

    • I’m more worried that if a mayor or governor decides to make a specific type or just all guns illegal and orders us to turn our firearms in, will police that I have put so much faith in break down my door, take them away, arrest me and say “Sorry sir, we’re just following orders”. I wish I could believe that could never happen, but what happened in St. Louis doesn’t make me so certain. The couple was on their own against a potentially deadly mob. The next day, their police came, performed a house search and confiscated their firearms, leaving them defenseless. They were then charged with felonies, which could cost more in legal fees than the average person can afford. How many police can I trust to be willing to lose their job if they don’t “follow orders” knowing that it could put an innocent person’s life in danger?

      • Let’s not conflate a malum prohibitum confiscation order with police responding to a prosecutor’s allegation of illegally pointing guns at people. The case in question is something of an anomaly, not a Nazi roundup of legally purchased and responsibly owned firearms.

  5. I remember well reading about the horrific fate of a Mr. Jeffrey Kulp who was killed by a wilding mob the infamous Liberty City (Miami) riots of 1980. Read closely the link included below. I was a 1LT in the U.S. Army at the time and was serving on active duty as the S2 of an infantry battalion. My fellow soldiers and I who were following closely the news of the Liberty City riots vowed to never be unarmed when driving through any crime-ridden urban area. FWIW, we all possessed state CCW licenses that were valid anywhere within the state of our then current military installation except, of course, on post! DoD’s anti-gun policies in 1980 were equivalent in foolishness to DoD’s anti-gun policies in 2020.

  6. Jeff Cooper mused on riot control in his excellent 1998 book To Ride, Shoot Straight, And Speak The Truth.

    His musings from that book:

    It would seem desirable to devise a system which would make sure, first, that the riot would stop; and second, that only the leaders would feel the weight of social disapproval.

    Let us consider such a means – the 22-caliber rimfire rifle. This weapon, properly sighted and equipped with a noise suppressor, may be used with surgical delicacy to neutralize mob leaders without risk to other members of the group, without noise and with scant danger of death to the subject. A low-velocity 22 bullet in the lung will not knock a man down, and in these days of modern antisepsis it will almost never kill him if he can get to a hospital in a reasonable time. It will, however, absolutely terminate his interest in leading a riot.

  7. What we have is the Antifa types and the opportunistic looters basically seeding themselves in among those I would call the legitimate protesters–the people who are there in good conscience and good faith, to cause no physical harm to anyone and to voice what they believe is a very important concern.

    I understand what you said, and agree with the self-defense considerations involved.

    However, IMHO, when the good-faith organizers’ 1st peaceful protest turns violent, they can blame the agitators. When their 61st peaceful protest turns violent, it’s on them. They need to modify their plans to insure the agitators get stopped, or be held legally liable for the result.

    Not that I’m holding my breath.

  8. Good stuff. As Mr. Miyagi replied when Daniel-San asked him if he “could break a log like that”:

    “Don’t know. Never been attacked by tree.”

    Don’t wander around in condition white. Bad things going on in your town, pay attention and don’t be there.

  9. Mas,

    If a rioter smashes your windshield such that your ability to drive is seriously impaired, i.e. preventing your ability to drive away, could one argue that the assailant is guilty of 2nd degree kidnapping?

  10. When driving in questionable areas, I carry a black hoodie with BLM on the front and back in reflective letters to quickly put on in case I’m surrounded and also have a case of cheap beer to pass around so my new pals will gladly escort me to safety while I chant loudly “Trump is a fascist pig!”

    • Tom606,

      The Left gets to burn down businesses. Could a group of right-wingers go to Harvard, or a CNN building, yell “Black Lives Matter!!!,” then throw bricks through the windows and try to burn down their buildings? No. Somehow that won’t fly.

      Notice how the good guys tie themselves up in knots trying to punctiliously follow the law while the bad guys literally get away with the murder of David Dorn and night after night of the destruction of property owned by taxpayers. These taxpayers paid for police protection, but didn’t receive it. Will they get their money back from the government? No. Will they continue to vote for Democrats?

      The only good things I can see coming out of these riots is the police now know that the Left hates them. They may be more inclined to favor those of us on the Right, if they choose to remain in police work. We know the Left will eventually try to have their own police force.

      Also, this is a good time for the guns & ammo industry. Democrat leaders know their people are so dumbed-down they will vote for Democrats even if they allow chaos in the cities, and call for defunding the police. Look at the Attorney General of NY saying she will shut down the NRA, when I’m sure the NRA has never been more popular than it is today. The Democrats who have not become complete zombies are buying guns, or trying to buy guns. Sane people are leaving the cities.

      • Roger:

        Unfortunately, it seems the majority of liberals will forever remain stupid. One would think with the obvious increase in criminal activity in the larger cities, mainly ruled by Democratic mayors and governors, and more firearms being sold, many to first time buyers, the membership of the NRA would be at least 25-30 million. However, that’s not the case as most gun owners want others to pay to protect their rights while they save their money to buy more stuff and some even believe that the Second Amendment can never be changed or eliminated by a hostile government such as a Biden regime.

        I believe it was Albert Einstein who said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Liberals for decades have made mistakes over and over again, but continue to do so, always thinking the next time will bring the desired results. They do so with impunity as it’s tax money they’re wasting and the media provides cover for them. Liberals also successfully use a tactic psychologists call “projection” which is doing something bad and then blaming their enemies of doing that. A perfect example is Hillary and the Obama regime cooperating with the Russians to help the Communists obtain a large portion of American uranium and getting rich doing so, then falsely blaming Donald Trump of colluding with the Russians to win the 2016 presidential election. The Russians definitely prefer Hillary in the White House instead of The Donald as that slimy traitor will readily betray her country for a buck, or several million of them.

  11. I submit that there is no such thing as “legitimate protesters of good conscience and good faith” on the streets or in the company of molotov-cocktail throwing rioters between the hours of 0001 and 0500, curfew or not.

  12. If anyone doubts that America is caught up in an Ideological Oppression Cycle (IOC – See my comments in the previous blog), then the topic of this current blog post should remove all doubt.

    This is the United States of America, people, and self-defense experts, like Mas, are being FORCED to author blogs and articles on how to defend your home and your person from rioting mobs of violent anarchists.

    It is long since time for all the ostriches (out there) to pull their heads out of the sand. This is an ongoing Ideological Oppression Cycle, people, and we are rapidly approaching Stage 4. It is kristallnacht in the Blue Cities and those who oppose Marxism and who happen to be born with a White Skin are being cast in the same role that the Jews filled in Nazi Germany. See this reference:

    If you continue to stand around and chew your cud like a cow in the pasture, you will soon find yourself sent to the slaughterhouse. I know that, for decades, you have lived a peaceful life here in the USA and it is really hard to realize that the World is changing. This is not the good, old, peaceful USA anymore. This is a Nation that is under steadfast attack by an internal Marxist Revolutionary Movement that is DETERMINED to transform America into a Marxist-Socialist State.

    The Democrat Party of today is not the Democrat Party of your Grandfather’s Day. It is no longer a Political Party that loves America (at least not as it was founded). Rather, it is a Party that hates America and that hates you if you are not a Marxist like them.

    The Good People of America (the people who love freedom and who love America as founded) SERIOUSLY need to come together and DESTROY this Marxist threat to America. Sitting on the sidelines, staying in your “Safe Space”, playing at being “Woke” or playing at being a “Never Trumper” in order to “go along to get along” will no longer cut it.

    The Election this November may be the most momentous one ever held since the Founding of America as an independent Nation. If the Marxists win (or even break-even) on this election, then LOOK OUT because it will be Stage 4 – Here we Come!

  13. On in-car riot survival equipment: Laser-protective goggles, hearing protection, a gas mask, a revolver in a covered tanker or shoulder holster for possibly the quickest and most reliable shots from cross-draw presentation in a seated position, a semi-auto with backup mags for firepower, and a trauma kit. Armed sidekicks are probably useful for multiplying friendly threat in various directions. Penetration of three opponents with solid bullets is numerically conservative. Military 30-06 ammo was reportedly used during the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900’s to execute up to 11 prisoners with each shot. Friendly advice: don’t be taken prisoner, in that at least some rioters are guaranteed to be dangerously borderline. Been there, seen that.

    • Nix on the deep penetrating bullets. Ain’t a herd of zombies we’re talking about here. You’d want just the opposite: projectiles designed so that, if they must be fired at all, they remain within the target due to the high possibility of non-hostiles behind them.

      • Yes sir, you are right to clarify. I was trying to point out how big the danger of over-penetration can get.

  14. On the practical side, what about carrying “Heavy Duty” pepper spray in your vehicle. I am talking about the products made, for hikers, to repel bears and that have ranges up to 40 feet, See this link for an example of the kind of product I am talking about:

    If protestors are starting to close in on your vehicle, you could roll down your window about 6 inches, give a short burst to the drivers side to clear people away from your drivers side door and then reach out, point the spray toward the front of the vehicle (or toward the rear if you have to back out) and empty it into the crowd that is blocking the front (or rear) of your vehicle.

    With some space now cleared, turn on the flashers, lean on the horn and then drive forward (or back out) of the crowd and drive away when clear.

    Of course, this strategy depends upon not being blocked in by other vehicles both front and rear. If you are blocked in and feel that you must abandon your vehicle to escape, then use the bear spray to help clear your escape route and flee on foot.

    Mas, what about the legal and tactical aspects of this idea?

    • On the tactical side, to keep the stuff from getting in the vehicle, you’d have to open your windows more than I’d like, and reach out farther than I’d like. If AC or vents are going and you spray it in front of the vehicle’s path, some of it’s gonna get sucked right into the vehicle. Bad implications for the driver in particular.

      • So, one would want to turn off AC / Heat and shut down the vent fans before trying this strategy. As you say, there is always the chance that some of the stuff would be vented into (or blow into) the vehicle if it was actually used.

        Of course, if you abandoned your vehicle and were forced to use the stuff as you fled on-foot, then there is also a chance of the wind blowing the stuff back into your own face. Yet hikers carry this stuff in the wild for bear protection. So, while I have never used this stuff (myself), I am guessing that this problem is manageable.

        All this suggests combining this method with some sort of chemical protection mask. Like the police do when deploying tear gas. Perhaps add a filter mask to the bear spray? Something like this?

        Of course, the time element now becomes a problem. Would you have time to unbox and put on the mask and then deploy the bear spray before your vehicle was totally violated? Perhaps. If not, and they are rapidly breaking into the vehicle to get you, your firearm and deadly force would be the backup plan.

        At least, having the mask and bear spray would show, to a future jury, that you were prepared to deploy a non-lethal option. The fact that you were prepared to go non-lethal but had to resort to lethal force, anyway, would (hopefully) show the jury how desperate the situation was when you deployed lethal force. It might reinforce, to the jury, that deadly force was justified and that this was a clear-cut case of self-defense.

      • TN_MAN:

        If you absolutely have to drive in potentially dangerous areas where vicious BLM and ANTIFA thugs are present, I would suggest a different tactic. Fix up your vehicle to resemble a pimp mobile to blend in with the crowd. Paint your car purple or lime green, add curb feelers, white wall tires, a super thick vinyl roof, giant lighted hood ornament, a gold crown or clenched fist air freshener on the dashboard, and huge amounts of chrome. Also have a station which plays rap pre-set on your radio just in case. This would work much better than bear pepper spray.

        An enterprising inventor could make a lot of money by developing a remotely controlled spray system for mounting under a vehicle which can release highly pressurized gas made with enhanced skunk extract into a violent mob surrounding your car. Just make sure to have all your windows tightly closed when the system is activated.

      • As I see it, if the situation is desperate enough to have fear of leaving your vehicle, yet also fear enough to respond, I think you’re going to need more than a “less leathal” response. You seem to have entered the condition red zone and it’s time to neutralize, not discourage, the threat!

    • Air Horns.

      The one I have on my motorcycle will make you leave a garage right now if blown.

      Several on the front of a vehicle should make people step back.

  15. About chemical agents and vehicles….decades ago during yearly chemical agent re-qualification a (half)wit snuck a live canister of particulate CN into the stack of inert training canisters. Since the training units had talcum powder instead of actual chemical agent, no one was paying any attention to wind direction. Admittedly, at least one failed to verify that what they had was inert rather than live. When the live round was launched 100 or so yards downrange, the breeze brought the agent back to the firing line. One of us was parked in just the wrong spot or wasn’t bright enough to shut the AC off before starting the car and fleeing. The AC duct system was contaminated and had to be removed and cleaned at vast expense to get all the stuff out. IIRC, as soon as it came back from service, it was traded. You want to try real hard to avoid this.

    While it’s good to be prepared, seeing the list of stuff some here are proposing to tote along just in case would seem to be right close to probable cause for being detained in a disturbance related stop. Judges/prosecutors get the big bucks to sort out the details of stuff like that.

    • @ WR Moore – “While it’s good to be prepared, seeing the list of stuff some here are proposing to tote along just in case would seem to be right close to probable cause for being detained in a disturbance related stop.”

      Well, along the lines of “it’s better to be tried by twelve than carried by six”, I would say that “it’s better to have a contaminated car than a fractured skull”.

      However, you are right. A lot of this talk is “What If”, theoretical tactics stuff. Right now, I have no need to carry anything beyond my usual self-defense items. I am fortunate to live in a solid Red State with a Republican Governor. The Marxists tried to start up some trouble in Nashville, early on just after Floyd’s death, but the State and Local Police shut them right down. As a result, Nashville has not been looted and burned like many of the Blue Cities. The Marxists picked on Nashville because it is a Blue Stain on an otherwise Red State. With a Democrat Mayor, they hoped to get the same free-pass that they got from many of the Northern Democrat Mayors. That did not happen largely because of our Republican Governor.

      Anyway, there is no need for me to carry riot gear in my vehicle. At least, not yet. However, some of the people who live and work in the Blue Riot Zones, and who cannot just hide and avoid trouble, might have to start toting extra riot gear and be damned what the local left-wing judges/prosecutors think. If the Law won’t protect the People then the People will start protecting themselves. That is also basic, human psychology. If the local Judges/prosecutors don’t like it, then the solution is to restore law and order. The solution is not to target good people who are only trying to defend themselves.

  16. I’m not current with what chemical agents are in common use these days. However, once the system is contaminated, your ability to stay in the vehicle and/or drive any reasonable distance is going to be a problem. I don’t recall exactly how far the victim described above got before being forced out of the vehicle, but it wan’t that far. Maybe 100 yards, which may/may not be sufficient. She had no bar to abandoning the vehicle, you may not have the same safe option. IIRC, she also needed some remedial care upon exiting the vehicle. That’s not likely to be available in the situations postulated.

  17. It turns out that the ultimate system for dealing with violent rioters, that are storming your vehicle, has already been built and sold in South Africa. The system was actually designed to deal with violent car-jackers but it should do a nice job on Antifa thugs as well.

    The system is called the Blaster (No, I am not making this up). Here is the Wikipedia article on it:

    And here is a video showing a test of the system:

    The old joke was to “try ’em and fry ’em”. With this system, you skip the trial phase and go straight to the frying! 🙂

    P.S. – For any leftist out there that was born without a sense of humor, yes, I am joking about using the blaster on the “Peaceful Protesters”. Mas can correct me if I am wrong but I fully expect that the justice system would have some “heartburn” (please excuse the pun) over the use of such a device here in the U.S. of A.

    • TN_MAN,

      GENIUS! I wonder if some technocrat could find a way to electrify the outside of a car, but not the inside. Carjacker grabs the door handle and gets shocked. A new Tesla option.

      • I am sure something could be designed along those lines. After all, the idea has already been applied to discourage squirrels from raiding bird feeders. See this link:

        If the idea works on squirrels then it should work on Antifa thugs too. After all, all these leftists are every bit as “squirrelly”! 🙂

      • I’m currently trying to get James Bond to sell me his old Aston Martin DB5 which is about as safe a car as one can get. It can chop off the legs of violence bend attackers with it’s axle driven tire cutters, and make them slip and fall after squirting out slippery oil. The hidden machine guns will be a last resort. If this car can protect Jimmy B. from SPECTRE assassins, it can safeguard you too. Place your order now with MI6, Q section.

  18. The ironic thing is that the subject of this blog, protecting yourself from mob violence (and the underlying mob violence that provokes this topic) are based upon yet-another Anti-American Media narrative.

    We have seen the Media spin these narratives a thousand times before. Have we forgotten the narrative that George Zimmerman ran down and coldly murdered an innocent youth? Have we forgotten the “Hands up – Don’t Shoot” narrative about the death of Michael Brown? Have we forgotten how they spun the narrative about the Covington Catholic High School Boys? (some of the media are paying, in cold-hard cash, for their part in that one!).

    For Pete’s sake, have we forgotten “Russia, Russia, Russia” or “Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine”?

    Yet, when the media flashed a carefully selected and edited section of video showing the death of George Floyd and spun their “The Police are All Racists and Need to be De-funded” narrative, most of the World seems to have been “Fooled Again”.

    What is the old saying? “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” How much shame is involved when the Anti-American Media fools you a thousand times? How much shame do the gullible consumers of these narratives deserve?

    In the George Floyd case, even some Conservative Commentators (like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity) got taken in by the scam. Shame on them as they should DEFINITELY know better by now.

    Mas is always telling anyone who will listen to wait for the facts to come out. Do not jump to conclusions. This is not easy, however, when the Anti-American Media is prodding everyone, with the propaganda equivalent of an electric cattle prod, every day in order to keep the American Public “jumping” and “afraid”.

    There is another side to the story about the death of George Floyd. People who soberly look into it can see it. Take this article, for example:

    Wake up, People! Remember what I said in my earlier comment about Ideological Oppression Cycles (IOC’s). How the drivers of these cycles use “Show Trials” to further their blame of the “Enemy Tribe” and to help explain why they have not produced utopia yet.

    The Marxists are turning the trial of the four (4) police officers, who arrested George Floyd, into a “Show Trial” to further their IOC.

    We are on the edge of Stage 4 in this IOC to transform America into a Marxist/Socialist State. Be Warned, once an IOC goes into Stages 4 and 5, the truly bad stuff happens. This is when another page gets added to the blood-soaked, barbaric history of mankind. Do we want such a page added for America? Do we want an American Holocaust?

    • TN_MAN,

      I believe George Floyd died from fentanyl, so he committed suicide. Maybe George Soros promised to give his survivors money if he died from “police brutality.” Still, he was handcuffed behind the back. He was lying face down. I tried to get upright from that position just now. I was able to get to a seated position but I could not stand up. Maybe a 16-year-old gymnast could stand up in that situation.

      I was going to say Chauvin did not need to kneel on Floyd’s back, but I guess he did need to kneel on his back if he wanted Floyd to remain lying down. But Floyd was not going to be able to get up and walk away.

      This looks like one of those situations where everything goes wrong in a co-ordinated way. That’s what happened when the Titanic sunk. One problem dominoed into another problem.

      So we have fake news in America. I would add to that a fake education system and a fake (fiat currency) money system based on debt.

      These are the days of deception.

    • “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!”

      Scotty said that on an episode of STAR TREK. Hear that you Trekkies out there, especially Roger Willco 🙂

      TN_MAN, I’m sure the four police officers will be fairly tried by the liberal Kangeroos in the courtroom and quickly lynched afterwards. Maybe they will get the type of execution favored by Nelson Mandela’s wife in South Africa, in which a gasoline soaked rubber tire is used to pin the arms of a victim, who is then burned alive. Mandela had a reason to fear his wife, more than other hapless, oppressed husbands 🙂

      • Yes, that was in the 40th episode of the series (episode 11 of Season 2) which was entitled “Friday’s Child”.

        Kirk, Spock and McCoy had beamed down to the planet Capella IV in order to negotiate a mining treaty with the warlike natives. They found that the Klingons were already there and are willing to bid against them.

        Meanwhile, the Enterprise, under the command of Scotty, was lured away from the planet by a false distress signal. After searching for the ship-in-distress and not finding it, Scotty realized that the signal was false. He ordered the Enterprise to return to Capella IV. As soon as they turned back, a second false message was received. It was at that point that Scotty delivered the above line. Scotty (unlike the gullible fools who believe what the Anti-American Media tells them time after time after time) learned from being deceived and he ignored this second message. At that point, a Klingon scout ship tried to interpose itself between the Enterprise and the planet. Instead of being cowed, Scotty raised shields, powered phases and went right for the Klingon vessel. Outgunned and outmatched, the Klingons did not have the courage to stand and fight. They ran for it.

        As you can see, I am a bit of a Trekkie too! 🙂

        You know, the American People would do well to follows Scotty’s example. It’s time to boldly confront the Marxists instead of mindlessly falling for their constant scams.

      • Thanks for this useful information fellow Trekkie. Sounds like our liberal folks have a lot in common with the nasty Klingons as they continue to ‘cling on’ to their flawed beliefs despite how illogical it is. May you live long and prosper, but only in a free and capitalist society.

      • Say, come to think of it, I seem to remember the STAR TREK episode Friday’s Child was the one guest starring the gorgeous Julie Newmar aka Catwoman on the 1960’s BATMAN TV series. There were also tall dudes in funny hats throwing circular saw blades to cut off the heads of their enemies. Too bad Miss Newmar’s voluptuous figure was concealed by huge amounts of clothing and her character was pregnant.

      • @ Tom606 – Yes, that was the episode in which the lovely Julie Newmar made a guess appearance.

        Note that the exact quote from Scotty was:

        Scotty: “There’s an old, old saying on Earth, Mister Sulu. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

        To which Chekov ad lib’s: “I know this saying. It was invented in Russia.”


      • “It was invented in Russia.”

        What, does that mean it’s possible the diabolical Fascist racist Donald Trump, close buddy and slimy crony of Vladimir Putin, came up with that wise saying?

      • Actually, I believe Chekov was wrong. Our best information indicates that this phrase originates from an Italian Proverb. See this link:

        Since the first recorded mention of this saying dates back to 1651, it is doubtful that either Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin were involved.

        However, the Russians (during their communist period) certainly did invent the following saying:

        “As long as the Bosses pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work.”

        We need to teach this saying to any leftist that is extolling the virtues of Socialism! 🙂

      • Yeah, the Russians could pretend to work, but when they come up short of produce for their commissars, those clever folks will be sent to the gulag – if they’re lucky. If not, then a small caliber bullet to the back of the head, a quaint Soviet custom which continues to this day. Uncle Joe (Biden and Stalin) plus comrade Bernie, AOC, Pocahontas, and most American liberals would love to bring that nice tradition to the U.S.A.

  19. You know, in thinking about the George Floyd incident (which was seized upon by the Marxists and their Media attack dogs to deliberately spark chaos), the real failure was one of communication.

    During this incident, the police officers involved never communicated their purpose to the crowd of onlookers. They just warned them to stay back and were mostly silent otherwise.

    This silence gave the media spin-doctors full opportunity to insert their own narrative. With no other explanation offered, the media was free to spin away! The grimace of stress on the face of Office Chauvin becomes a “sadistic smile of racist pleasure as he chokes the life out of a helpless black man” as penned by the Anti-American Media. All four are guilty of murder as portrayed by the media narrative. Of course, there was nothing in the carefully selected video clip to dispute this narrative.

    Suppose one of the Officers at the scene, Officer Thao for example, had made the following statement to the crowd (and made sure that it was captured on video):

    “Please stand back. We are not trying to injure this man. However, it appears that he may be under the influence of a powerful narcotic. He must be restrained in order to prevent injury to himself or others. We have called for Medical Services and, as soon as they arrive, this man will be conveyed to the hospital for medical care.”

    Imagine how useful such a statement would be to the Legal Defense Teams that are working to clear these officers of criminal charges. Image how much more difficult it would be for the media to freely spin their “racist police” narrative in the face of the above statement.

    The police failure in this incident was not one of tactics or procedure. If you look into it, the police officers were following the procedures proscribed by their department. No, the failure was one of “Community Relations”.

    In today’s Anti-police environment, where the Left and their blind supporters truly view the police as the “Enemy Tribe”, it is not enough to train the Police in proper “use of force” tactics and proper procedures. The Police need to be trained in Community Relations as well. In fact, in today’s world, community relations training may be even more important than use-of-force training.

  20. Typo corrections – should read “Imagine how much more difficult it would be for the media” and
    “the police officers were following the procedures prescribed by their department.”

    • TN_MAN,

      DING! DING! DING! You are precisely right! Same thing happened with the short segment of the Rodney King video. If the whole video had been played, we would have seen King’s accomplice calmly sitting in the back of the police car while King resists and resists.

      So the media electronically sends their “story” to the whole world at the speed of light, while the cops and legal system tell us to wait several months for the facts to be gathered, the judge to hear ALL the evidence from both sides, and the jury to make its determination. That may have worked OK in the 1800s, although maybe it didn’t even work then. I’ve heard of vigilante groups impatient to wait for the court even back in those days.

      What you suggest will work until a spokesman is later found to have mis-spoke, or until the police and legal system begin to put their own spin on events, and people lose confidence in them too.

      In 1991, during the Persian Gulf War, Norman Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell would tell us what was going on. A co-worker told me they were giving us propaganda. I said I didn’t care. I would rather hear propaganda from the generals than propaganda from CNN.

      It’s time for Americans to grow up and realize there is no such thing as objectivity. The British newspapers are honest and declare their biases. We should too. American newspapers used to do that a long time ago.

      I think I can only be neutral when I am ignorant of a matter. Once I begin to learn about an issue, I begin to take sides and weigh right and wrong.

      • @ Roger Willco – “So the media electronically sends their “story” to the whole world at the speed of light, while the cops and legal system tell us to wait several months for the facts to be gathered, the judge to hear ALL the evidence from both sides, and the jury to make its determination.”

        Mark Twain said it best (and I quote): “A lie can travel around the World while the truth is tying it’s shoe laces.”

        Sadly, we live in a World where the “Warp-Speed Lie” and the “Media Narrative” are facts of life. All thanks to our traitorous Anti-American Media.

        Those of us who are capable of “Critical Thinking” know the above truth and, as a result, have deep suspicion about anything the Media says. We will wait until we verify the facts before making up our minds.

        For this reason, Critical Thinking Skills represent a danger to the American Left. That is why they eliminated the teaching of critical thinking from our schools and universities as soon as they could. The American Left relies upon indoctrination rather than education. They don’t want Citizens who can think for themselves. They want Subjects who will do as they are told!

        They are totalitarians. What they want is the power to rule over us. What they want from us is our obedience and our tax dollars paid into their coffers.

  21. @TN_MAN

    Check out how the local DA in Portland OR has developed an entirely new policy with respect to (not) charging and prosecuting members of the mob that has turned the streets of Portland into combat zones for over two months:

    Will we have to wait until the November 2020 elections to find out if the mob has indeed prevailed in America, or is the game already over, since we know that every single devout worshiper of “woke” identity politics in the USA is going to pull the lever for the modern day Marxist Biden-Harris ticket?

    • @ Curtis – “Check out how the local DA in Portland OR has developed an entirely new policy…”

      I glanced over the new policy. It is fully in-line with the standard Democrat procedure of “Normalization of Deviancy”. In other words, it is SOP for the Democrats to take behaviors, like sexual deviancy, corruption, deceit, violence, crime and hatred (behaviors that are historically considered WRONG under Judeo-Christian teachings) and to twist them so that they are viewed as normal and acceptable from a “woke” point-of-view.

      Rioting, looting, burning and general anarchy are (historically) unacceptable. The Democrats are trying out a “narrative” that now makes them acceptable. As I said, this is a Standard Operating Procedure of the Democrat Party of the United States of America.

      Note that the author of this document starts out by declaring the Death of George Floyd to be a murder. Any REAL District Attorney should know better than to make such a statement since the case is still Sub-Judice. If the police officers, who are accused of murder in the Death of George Floyd, are found to be Not Guilty by the Courts, then they will have an excellent case to sue this DA for slander and defamation of character.

      In fact, if these police officers are ultimately acquitted of any crime in the Death of George Floyd, then I HOPE and PRAY that they will sue people like this DA and sue multiple Media companies for millions and millions and millions of dollars.

      Nicholas Sandmann has made a start but we need lots and lots more cases where the media gets hit for big awards for pushing fake news and narratives. One way to force some discipline in the news media is to make it painful, in terms of cold, hard cash, to continue to push falsehoods.

  22. Is there a good discussion board for issues concerning self-defense legal liability, both general principles and specific cases? I prefer not to start out paying a lawyer who may not even know the answer $100s/hour just to hear me ask. I read _In the Gravest Extreme_ and also Andrew Branca’s book, but the answers to some questions are just hinted at.

    For example, I understand it is murder to shoot a man “merely over property.” And I realize that sometimes even a legally justifiable shooting might be ill-advised because of the danger one won’t have evidence proving one’s justifiability, the cost of a malicious prosecution, and the danger of legal atrocity due to incompetent representation or prejudice among jurors.

    But aside from that, I cannot find a clear statement as to whether the principle of Avoidance (which mandates that a defender avoid the need to shoot if he can) imposes a legal or moral obligation to surrender property if the criminal capably threatens imminent murder unless property is turned over to him? I can think of arguments both for and against.

    Furthermore, I understand that prosecutors have discretion and might be guided by what they think they can convince a jury to do — but is my question a matter of settled law?

    If an armed robber pointed a gun at a pizza delivery man, and if instead of submitting, the victim shot the robber (and barring complications such as shooting robbers who were in retreat, failing to call the police, etc.) — would knowledgeable people still consider him to be “someone who did everything right”?

    I feel this blog is not the right place for such discussions — it’s for discussing what the author chooses to write about — hence my request for a discussion board recommendation. Or would such a forum be too public for discussion of such issues?

    I also have more specific questions. For example, the current issue of American Handgunner concerns the case of a man who shot a burglar who was threatening to attack him, and the complicating factor that almost instantaneous with his decision to shoot was the attacker’s sudden change in mind to turn away (resulting in a bullet hitting him towards his back). The prosecutor tried to portray the defendant as someone who executed a man for being a thief.

    I would ask, did the prosecutor actually believe that the man had willfully chosen to execute a man for stealing, or did he maliciously prosecute a man he knew didn’t deserve it because he opposed self-defense and thought he could fool the jury?

    Are malicious prosecutors common? I know that various organizations might track the votes of officials to hold them accountable, but I don’t hear of organizations taking not of abusive prosecutors, to criticize their decisions in specific cases when they are appointed to or run for office (e.g. for district attorney).

    • I wouldn’t say malicious prosecutions are common, Frank, but they do occur.
      I don’t do Facebook, but I understand the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network has a Facebook page. You can get more info from ACLDN at
      I believe you’ll find some spirited discussion in the comments section of my friend Andrew Branca’s blog, at
      In the case you mentioned from American Handgunner, MT v. James Stiffler, only the prosecutor can explain his motivation. He might simply not have understood the dynamics involved.
      As to shooting the armed robber threatening to kill you if you don’t comply, it’s the threat to life rather than the protection of property element that authorizes deadly force in self-defense.

Comments are closed.