Comments

WHY WE USE EXPANDING BULLETS FOR SELF-DEFENSE PART II: THE OVER-PENETRATION FACTOR — No Comments

  1. Mr Ayoob,

    One of the long time worries I have has been the legal topic of the type of ammo used in DGUs. As one mentioned above, the “names” of the ammo that are ultimately carried which may be used could be used in courts as killer ammo instead of defense ammo, or cop killer for example.

    I am not beholding to any particular brand name of hollow point, but I do choose to only carry the ones that have the word “defense” on the box. My reasoning is that if I ever were to be involved in a DGU at least the box of ammo can be used in court as part of my defense is ammo that was chosen to defend myself only.

    I don’t think the box of “Zombie Killer” ammo would work very well for me defending myself in court.

    Or am I wrong in my thinking?

  2. Mr Ayoob,

    One of the long time worries I have has been the legal topic of the type of ammo used in DGUs. As one mentioned above, the “names” of the ammo that are ultimately carried which may be used could be used in courts as killer ammo instead of defense ammo, or cop killer for example.

    I am not beholding to any particular brand name of hollow point, but I do choose to only carry the ones that have the word “defense” on the box. My reasoning is that if I ever were to be involved in a DGU at least the box of ammo can be used in court as part of my defense is ammo that was chosen to defend myself only.

    I don’t think the box of “Zombie Killer” ammo would work very well for me defending myself in court.

    Or am I wrong in my thinking?

  3. Since ammo cost was mentioned, I think that the gun should be broken in with FMJ until it is trust-worthy. Then if cost and availability are issues, there are hollow points that are known to have a profile friendly to feed ramps (thinking Golden Sabers or even Winchester Rangers and SXTs over Gold Dots and Hornadys). The bargain/civilian/practice version of that duty ammo could be shot in the hundreds through the gun before a box or two of the real deal would be tested before loading gun and magazines with it. Not ideal, but I’d be personally comfortable with that.

    And if on a budget, the shooter should probably stay away from +P rounds and find one that shoots to the same POI as FMJ instead so that there’d be no need to practice with the duty ammo, just to test it for reliability.

  4. Since ammo cost was mentioned, I think that the gun should be broken in with FMJ until it is trust-worthy. Then if cost and availability are issues, there are hollow points that are known to have a profile friendly to feed ramps (thinking Golden Sabers or even Winchester Rangers and SXTs over Gold Dots and Hornadys). The bargain/civilian/practice version of that duty ammo could be shot in the hundreds through the gun before a box or two of the real deal would be tested before loading gun and magazines with it. Not ideal, but I’d be personally comfortable with that.

    And if on a budget, the shooter should probably stay away from +P rounds and find one that shoots to the same POI as FMJ instead so that there’d be no need to practice with the duty ammo, just to test it for reliability.

  5. I suggest to my students that “break-in” ammo can be range ball. The purpose of the “break-in” is to assure mechanical reliability, to burnish the left over machining marks and smooth off the burrs, make sure the slide stop doesnt have a hidden material defect and that the magazine release has the “brand-new” stiffness ironed out a bit.

    Then you run a box of your chosen defense ammo through it.

  6. I suggest to my students that “break-in” ammo can be range ball. The purpose of the “break-in” is to assure mechanical reliability, to burnish the left over machining marks and smooth off the burrs, make sure the slide stop doesnt have a hidden material defect and that the magazine release has the “brand-new” stiffness ironed out a bit.

    Then you run a box of your chosen defense ammo through it.

  7. I suggest to my students that “break-in” ammo can be range ball. The purpose of the “break-in” is to assure mechanical reliability, to burnish the left over machining marks and smooth off the burrs, make sure the slide stop doesnt have a hidden material defect and that the magazine release has the “brand-new” stiffness ironed out a bit.

    Then you run a box of your chosen defense ammo through it.

  8. An added plus, when that expanding bullet comes to it’s sudden stop within a body that body has had to absorb all the energy that was driving that bullet. that’s a lot of shock.

  9. An added plus, when that expanding bullet comes to it’s sudden stop within a body that body has had to absorb all the energy that was driving that bullet. that’s a lot of shock.

  10. Randy–Republic of Illinois:

    Technological innovation is a beautiful thing! Now they have hollow points that are shaped like FMJ, so they should feed in any type of semi-auto. Both “Pow’R Ball” and “Hornady Critical Defense” ammo fill in the hollow cavity with plastic. This solves some problems. Obviously it is good for semi-autos that are finicky with traditional hollow-points. Also, some semi-autos were designed so long ago that they only function with FMJ. I’m thinking of Lugers and Thompsom submachine guns. Now these historic guns could be used for self-defense, assuming the Pow’R Ball feeds in them.

    And here’s the best thing about the hollow points filled in with plastic; they defeat New Jersey’s silly, overly-complicated hollow point carry laws. According to NJ law, only active-duty officers can carry hollow points. Even retired cops are not allowed to use HPs in their carry guns. But, these new HPs with the plastic tips are not considered HPs by NJ, therefore they are legal to be carried by those few residents who can legally carry concealed handguns. I’m low-tech and neo-Amish, but technological innovation is indeed a beautiful thing!

  11. Randy–Republic of Illinois:

    Technological innovation is a beautiful thing! Now they have hollow points that are shaped like FMJ, so they should feed in any type of semi-auto. Both “Pow’R Ball” and “Hornady Critical Defense” ammo fill in the hollow cavity with plastic. This solves some problems. Obviously it is good for semi-autos that are finicky with traditional hollow-points. Also, some semi-autos were designed so long ago that they only function with FMJ. I’m thinking of Lugers and Thompsom submachine guns. Now these historic guns could be used for self-defense, assuming the Pow’R Ball feeds in them.

    And here’s the best thing about the hollow points filled in with plastic; they defeat New Jersey’s silly, overly-complicated hollow point carry laws. According to NJ law, only active-duty officers can carry hollow points. Even retired cops are not allowed to use HPs in their carry guns. But, these new HPs with the plastic tips are not considered HPs by NJ, therefore they are legal to be carried by those few residents who can legally carry concealed handguns. I’m low-tech and neo-Amish, but technological innovation is indeed a beautiful thing!

  12. Randy–Republic of Illinois:

    Technological innovation is a beautiful thing! Now they have hollow points that are shaped like FMJ, so they should feed in any type of semi-auto. Both “Pow’R Ball” and “Hornady Critical Defense” ammo fill in the hollow cavity with plastic. This solves some problems. Obviously it is good for semi-autos that are finicky with traditional hollow-points. Also, some semi-autos were designed so long ago that they only function with FMJ. I’m thinking of Lugers and Thompsom submachine guns. Now these historic guns could be used for self-defense, assuming the Pow’R Ball feeds in them.

    And here’s the best thing about the hollow points filled in with plastic; they defeat New Jersey’s silly, overly-complicated hollow point carry laws. According to NJ law, only active-duty officers can carry hollow points. Even retired cops are not allowed to use HPs in their carry guns. But, these new HPs with the plastic tips are not considered HPs by NJ, therefore they are legal to be carried by those few residents who can legally carry concealed handguns. I’m low-tech and neo-Amish, but technological innovation is indeed a beautiful thing!

  13. Randy–Republic of Illinois:

    Technological innovation is a beautiful thing! Now they have hollow points that are shaped like FMJ, so they should feed in any type of semi-auto. Both “Pow’R Ball” and “Hornady Critical Defense” ammo fill in the hollow cavity with plastic. This solves some problems. Obviously it is good for semi-autos that are finicky with traditional hollow-points. Also, some semi-autos were designed so long ago that they only function with FMJ. I’m thinking of Lugers and Thompsom submachine guns. Now these historic guns could be used for self-defense, assuming the Pow’R Ball feeds in them.

    And here’s the best thing about the hollow points filled in with plastic; they defeat New Jersey’s silly, overly-complicated hollow point carry laws. According to NJ law, only active-duty officers can carry hollow points. Even retired cops are not allowed to use HPs in their carry guns. But, these new HPs with the plastic tips are not considered HPs by NJ, therefore they are legal to be carried by those few residents who can legally carry concealed handguns. I’m low-tech and neo-Amish, but technological innovation is indeed a beautiful thing!

  14. That neo-Amish comment made me laugh, Old Fezzywig! I regard much progress with suspicion and have mentioned my ‘Amish tendencies’ many times elsewhere. That’s why I sometimes contemplate loading my guns with FMJ, but old school only goes so far, as this series by Mas shows. And hollow points are well proven anyway now. Good point on the Pow’R Balls, by the way.

  15. That neo-Amish comment made me laugh, Old Fezzywig! I regard much progress with suspicion and have mentioned my ‘Amish tendencies’ many times elsewhere. That’s why I sometimes contemplate loading my guns with FMJ, but old school only goes so far, as this series by Mas shows. And hollow points are well proven anyway now. Good point on the Pow’R Balls, by the way.

  16. That neo-Amish comment made me laugh, Old Fezzywig! I regard much progress with suspicion and have mentioned my ‘Amish tendencies’ many times elsewhere. That’s why I sometimes contemplate loading my guns with FMJ, but old school only goes so far, as this series by Mas shows. And hollow points are well proven anyway now. Good point on the Pow’R Balls, by the way.

  17. This is often a no win situation. Take the Miami shootout for example. One of the bad guys was hit in the arm with a 115 grain 9mm hollow point. It went through the arm but stopped just short of the heart enabling the bad guy to go on shooting and killing.

    Now should the cops have used 125 grain 9mm bullets for more penetration. The answer is probably not as the 125 grain bullets have been known to over penetrate enough to kill innocent by standers.

    The answer is there is no easy answer sometimes as to what weight bullet to use for self defense as every shooting incident is different requiring varying depths of penetration.

  18. This is often a no win situation. Take the Miami shootout for example. One of the bad guys was hit in the arm with a 115 grain 9mm hollow point. It went through the arm but stopped just short of the heart enabling the bad guy to go on shooting and killing.

    Now should the cops have used 125 grain 9mm bullets for more penetration. The answer is probably not as the 125 grain bullets have been known to over penetrate enough to kill innocent by standers.

    The answer is there is no easy answer sometimes as to what weight bullet to use for self defense as every shooting incident is different requiring varying depths of penetration.

  19. Another problem is how many rounds do you fire to break in a pistol and still have it reliable considering the fact that more and more firearms companies are using unreliable junk brittle MIM Cast parts that are know for high failure rates.

  20. Another problem is how many rounds do you fire to break in a pistol and still have it reliable considering the fact that more and more firearms companies are using unreliable junk brittle MIM Cast parts that are know for high failure rates.

  21. Another problem is how many rounds do you fire to break in a pistol and still have it reliable considering the fact that more and more firearms companies are using unreliable junk brittle MIM Cast parts that are know for high failure rates.

  22. Another problem is how many rounds do you fire to break in a pistol and still have it reliable considering the fact that more and more firearms companies are using unreliable junk brittle MIM Cast parts that are know for high failure rates.