1. Cheers Mas,

    Dr. John Lott has proven that ‘mandatory’ fees, licenses, permits & training schemes intentionally harm low income citizens.

    The left continues to push for agenda items like mandatory “insurance” for the same reason. (Incidentally, just what would this “insurance” cover?) They want to make gun ownership so expensive, burdensome and onerous than it reduces gun owners to a minority that can later be crushed when they repeal the “misunderstood” second amendment as Ginsberg said. (How wonderful will it be for President TRUMP to nominate the replacement for her seat? Tick. Tock.)

    I think training should be mandatory as the MAG classes have tremendously increased my skill and knowledge.

    However, since it is the political left’s idea and they insist it benefits all of society, then society should pay for it. (i.e. background checks, insurance, and training tuition, say a $2,500 annual Armed Income Tax Credit?)

    See you at MAG180!


  2. If the public really thinks “Mandatory Training” is a good thing, they should want to see more of it, not just among gun owners, but for everyone who might encounter a gun (which means “everyone“).
    So, teach it to everyone, in public schools, for free. Or at least OFFER it for free or for a reduced (publicity subsidized) charge. I’m not saying “don’t pay the instructors,” I’m saying do it on the public dime. Why? Because it’s in the public interest, and facilitates the exercise of a Constitutionally protected right.
    But that’s not why most people seem to demand “Mandatory Training.” Instead, it’s seen as a potential barrier to gun ownership they might exploit. In the wake of the Heller decision, the City of Chicago tried to mandate some (absurdly long and expensive) training regimen to be held at a gun range within city limits, while simultaneously CLOSING all such facilities with zoning and the like, so that the requirement would be impossible to meet. That rule was thankfully struck down by the courts as soon as it was challenged.
    The severity of that example notwithstanding, “Mandatory Training” threatens to function the same way Literacy Tests and Poll Taxes worked in the Jim Crow era: as an artificial obstacle to important civil liberties. That’s the only problem I have with it. If Training is such a great and necessary thing, it should be Mandatory for the State to encourage and facilitate it.

  3. If it were more accessible and affordable, not 100-500 bucks a session because the NRA says so.. them more people would be able to get it.. Here where I live the local sheriff’s dept gives a 12 hour class for 10 bucks. YEP 10.
    So yes it is not affordable for the average person, neither is gun ownership IMO.. Sure there are cheap guns, but you get what you pay for..
    Mandatory training for purchase? No. To carry, Yes. I would love to know that if the SHTF the person next to me has the same level of base knowledge I do, and we know what to do.
    Solution, Lower the cost of the training and make it affordable to all persons… instead of holding onto it like its some merit badge for your range bag. Thanks

    • So you, as most lefties do, expect the person(s) doing the training to not be paid what they are worth to train people? How else do you lower the cost of training? Do you expect the government to pay for it? WHere does the government get its money? From taking it from us. You get what you pay for so if the cost is so low so everyone can afford it then the training won’t be worth the paper the completion certificate is printed on.

  4. Differentiate between legal and moral responsibilities. Should the state impose a pre-requirement on the exercise of a fundamental right? No. That was answered when SCOTUS banned poll tests more than half-a-century ago. Do we have a moral responsibility to exercise those rights responsibly? Yes. To the extent training, to whatever degree, assists us in that moral exercise is up to the individual.

  5. Why is everyone on the defensive? Training requirements to get a permit or own a firearm? Why not go on the offensive? Firearms safety training as part of the education system, add in required First Aid as well. No requirement to own or even fire a gun, but every child should be trained taught the 4 rules of safety and progress to safely handle and check and clear a firearm at some level in the education system. A kindergartner or first grader doesn’t know how to do a press check, but they should know the 4 rules and to tell and adult. A HS senior shouldn’t be able to graduate without knowing the 4 rules and being able to check a revolver or semiauto handgun, shotgun or most semiauto rifles are loaded, on safe etc. You know, it’s about the children.
    Let the anti gun folks worry about the slow escalation of training requirements to turning into being able to safely and accurately fire 10 rounds at a target at 25 yds, under time.

  6. Hello, just notice from central Europe (Czech Republic). We have to pass exam to get gun license to own firearm of specific class (for historical guns all you need is age over 18). There is no specific training required, but different ranges offer it and there are people attending it. Exam consists of test (choosing A/B/C/D from offered answers) from law, first aid and some gun-related terminology and practical exam consisting of safe manipulation and shooting to stationary target.
    It works, because written part filters out most of careless people – they just don’t prepare, and practical exam just ensure you know how to not shoot yourself. Questions for test are (random) subset of 500 questions known beforehand and there are relatively strict rules what is requested/acceptable during practical part. For CC permit there are higher score in exam requested than for hunters and sport shooters. Also we need to be examined by doctor – there is list of illnesses that prevents you to get gun license i.e. paranoia.
    That is current state, problem is same as Mas pointed out. It is not cheap (but not too expensive) and in my opinion worse – it takes about 3 months to get it.
    But what I really dislike – there is central registry of gun license owners and their guns. Although I understand it saves work to police and so in past it was great source of information for Gestapo. So you should never allow your government to build something like it. Because now when Europe Union comes with more and more regulations of firearms in name of “fight against terrorism” authorities have exact list of gun owners and their guns – easy to confiscate etc.

  7. If we are required to have training before we can exercise a right, then it is no longer a right, but a privilege allowed us contingent upon us meeting the State’s standards. No thanks.
    Limiting freedoms because some people might or do abuse them is a path to
    eliminating freedoms entirely.
    But then I’m a radical, I believe that a citizen should be able to own and freely use whatever he can afford.
    But the first time he uses it to harm another, hammer him like a pinewood tentpeg.

  8. Training/instruction is a damn fine idea. Formal training from a certified instructor is even better.

    Mandating either as a condition for eligibility to own a firearm is a terrible idea.

    Any law being proposed, I ask myself, “What’s the worst thing that could happen?” (Alternatively, “What would California, New York, or New Jersey politicians do with this?” It amounts to the same thing, most of the time.)

    Here’s what I envision happening over time: Any mandate for firearms training as a condition of eligibility, will be amended to require an arbitrary, progressively-increasing number of hours of training, and a progressively-increasing number and type of certifications for whomever would teach, leading to an exponentially-increasing cost of such training. The costs are reflected both in the tuition for the classes, and lost wages as requiring more hours inevitably bleeds over into taking days off work to attend.

    The end result is that training — and by extension, firearms ownership itself — becomes a hobby only for the rich and well-connected; it becomes too expensive for the American Everyman.

    That’s my vision, and why I oppose mandatory “firearms safety” training as a condition of legal gun ownership.

  9. Interesting conundrum balancing public safety, personal income and self-protection, and a Constitutional right.

    Most reasonable citizens, I think, would agree that gun owners should undergo voluntary basic firearms safety training but might balk at passing a law to enforce more compliance. Taking gun ownership a little further is legal concealed carry, which in my mind involves much greater gun owner responsibility and risk to the public if the gun toter is ignorant, inept or reckless. And from my personal experience many CCW folks are.

    Thus, I see a middle ground here: no law requiring training merely to own and keep a firearm in one’s abode, but mandatory testing and certification (i.e., basic firearms safety knowledge, understanding deadly force situations, being able to hit a target at 10 yards, etc.) for concealed carry.

  10. Perhaps mandatory training as defined by government becomes the slippery slope, i.e., requiring accuracy to the point of snipers, speed tests with the owner’s firearm approaching professional standards. Point is,anti-gun people use many deceptions in their quest, a little truth placed in plain sight wth the hidden agenda is one. Thanks for you always reasoned comments Mas.

  11. Many of our inherent rights are becoming regulated. So, one wonders if they’re still rights or merely gifts from the state. Media focus notwithstanding, firearms injuries and deaths are down. So, there appears to be little reason to trade more inalienable rights over to bureaucratic control.

    Would Liberal Dave accept “mandatory training” for women considering abortions? Minorities or lowly educated people registering to vote? Here’s a headline: Texas legislates mandatory training for first time voters.

    • Joel,

      You make some good points. Of course, I would suspect Liberal Dave would argue that the right to vote doesn’t endanger innocent lives. Tell that to the folks in Venezuela who voted in socialism, due, at least in part, to ignorance of the deadly history and failures of that form of governance. He would probably argue that the death of a “fetus” doesn’t count as it’s not fully human, much like how democrats refused to acknowledge Africans as fully human years ago, and even now insist they need assistance and guidance of “smarter” people to thrive in modern society. Yes, indeed, all of us lesser souls would be so much better off if we just had enough intelligence to recognize our need to submit to their enlightened dictates.

  12. I just did my annual LEOSA qual. Course of fire was 30 rounds from 3-15 yards. Shot the “off duty” course. Fortunately, the local PD conducts free LEOSA shoots to any LE retired that live in the area. Total time was about 15 minutes. I could get the state issued CCW permit, but then would lose out on 50 state carry.

  13. My dad is 83 years old. He has passed the CCW requirements for the state in which he lives. He use a cane sometimes. He likes going to the range and shoot. He won’t be taking any training classes that require him to shoot on time, kneel, squat, run, or the like. But, he carries a snubbie in case he an mom cannot get away from a bad situation.

  14. If each county in America still had a citizen militia, that militia could MAYBE be trusted to ensure everyone in the county received some firearms training. Since about the time of WWI the citizen militia has become the National Guard. Truth is, we really can’t rely on government at any level, to do the right thing. So, as Mas said, we don’t want training to be out of reach of the poor. Also, we can’t trust the government to do the right thing. So, firearms training is left up to the individual citizen, with the understanding that if he acts unwisely, he could pay dearly for it. This ought to be enough motivation for most citizens to get plenty of training. Nevertheless, our world is imperfect, and will continue to be so.

  15. Mas, not even “liberal Dave” can – or should, take exception to anything you’ve written, although I’ve a feeling he’ll try. Your words have always rung true – never more so than now.

  16. Mas; People buy handguns for self protection. Florida law allows a copy of your DD-214 to get a carry permit. How many military people ever qualified to handle a handgun? This law should be revoked. The law also says you must fire the gun. Some scrupulous instructors, using a lightly reloaded .38 sp. round have their students fire one round into a barrel half filled with sand, that qualifies them to get a carry permit. This law should also be revoked. We keep trying to do it right.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *