Crossovers
Wednesday, February 6th, 2013During yesterday’s WRSA roundtable, I noted that there’s a lot of crossover of interests between gun owners and hackers, and that similar crossovers could lead to surprising freedom alliances (or at least complementary efforts).
A commenter was kind enough to find that a brilliant observation (thank you). To me, though, it was just something that’s … there.
Though only a minority of gun owners are likely to be serious freedomistas, my guess is that the majority of serious hackers are libertarians or anarchists. And they either own guns, support our right to do so, or at least understand the role guns can play in guarding against tyranny.
So on one end of the spectrum you have hackers who are bent on defending gun rights — their own and everybody else’s. But even on the “weaker” end of the hacker/gun-rights spectrum, you have people who are capable of … say, for example … screwing up government gun-registration databases just for the jolly, black-flag fun of it.
Without needing to envision any grand, formal “hacker/gun owner alliance,” that’s some pretty powerful stuff, right there.
It got me wondering what other natural crossovers the Commentariat might envision being out there. So I’m tossing the question out for you-all. What are some other natural crossovers? Not necessarily factions that might work in a coordinated way on freedom causes (though that, too), but ones whose work might complement each other?
February 6th, 2013
Cops who are Oathkeepers comes to mind. Trying to imagine the first time a sheriff stands up and says NO to the feds is an ongoing daydream of mine.
(On a larger scale, I fantasize about the state of CA saying no to the DEA on stealing peoples’ potcrops. Wouldn’t that be sumthin, the CA Natguard drawing down on the DEA to protect state’s rights/the weed?)
February 6th, 2013
The food freedom movement has a LOT of crossover. Many of the liberal hypocrites who are for government control in other areas are quite rabid about protecting this particular freedom.
February 6th, 2013
Food freedom movement, sci-fi readers/writers, some holistic health practitioners, and paleo diet people.
February 6th, 2013
Well, to start off… writers and artists. :-)
To upset the big three (Monsanto, Dow and Dupont)… farmers and local markets – they already combine their talents and productivity every year.
Local restaurants work with local caterers/cooks/bakers/gardeners to furnish fresh, fast, trustworthy food to their customers.
Small plane pilots might synchronize services with in-state or short to medium- distance delivery companies or private mail carriers – under the radar, without USPS or other fed involvement.
Hunting/fishing guides could steer customers to butcher shops or BBQ/smoker services.
A couple of one-man shops around here combine small machine repair or knife/saw sharpening with locksmithing and keymaking. And I know one sharpener who reloads for customers on the side. Any of these services could be mutually beneficial to more than one business.
February 6th, 2013
I suspect the ham radio folks are a natural “crossover” group, and their expertise might be extremely important in the near future. Don’t know if anyone uses CB radio anymore (dates me badly), but that is another informal bunch that might be well worth cultivating. Of course, many of them are already shooters and independent cusses to beat the band, but I’m sure there are many in the cities who might be happy to be invited out to shoot – and learn more about freedom in the process.
February 6th, 2013
Oh, and serious motorcycle clubs… not the gang type, but those who come to things like the Sturgis Rally in South Dakota. Snow mobile clubs?
February 6th, 2013
Cross over of mutual interests?
Gun owners and Marijauna growers, dispensers, users and importers. Some of the same challenges, maligned by the media, draconian federal law, stigmatized, serious conflict between federal and state laws. Marijauna grown, processed and consumed totally in the same state should have no federal involvement etc.
Gun owners and smugglers, not so much common interests, but we might need parts, ammo, magazines or whole weapons moved surreptiously from one place to another.
Gun owners and religion. You don’t need religion to love freedom, or be a gun owner or prepper, but the religious are going to need guns to keep themselves free soon. Non-mainstream religions or small sects such as Falun-gong, Branch Davidians, Waldensians etc might need that defense sooner than later.
February 6th, 2013
In the 90’s I would have agreed with you. Most of my fellow geeks seems to also be libertarians or anarchists. These days they are more likely to lean liberal, although some of them are the odd combination of pro-gun Obama voters.
February 6th, 2013
i agree with the local food connection noted. i work with restaurants and farmers markets. dens of anarchists and casualties of the state. many with goods, wares or services stifled by regulation. Fawke the State t shirts would sell well.
February 6th, 2013
Engineers. There’s this certain segment of that group who do things like make drones in their spare time and don’t believe the government should have a monopoly of that kind of “power”. Many of them would rather work for “other” entities than the state and they fully except the idea of the government not having a monopoly on force.
February 6th, 2013
And BTW, drones are just one example. They essentially work in robotics of differing kinds with great interest in “nano” tech.
February 7th, 2013
The gun and cannabis cultures should be a natural fit. Both face troubles from a fedgov that violates the Bill of Rights: 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th, and 10th Amendments.
There is the ‘crossover’ effect…
When Bill of Rights busting LE efforts are blessed by SCOTUS in either cannabis or gun cases, the newly OKed tactics soon migrate to being used generally.
There was a meeting of firearms and cannabis interests in Ohio where a major Ohio gun rights org. (Buckeye Firearms Assoc.) helped push legislation to end automatic firearms disability for minor cannabis ‘crimes’.
There is the possibility of endless combinations, as virtually anyone who enjoys any form of individual Liberty is under some degree of government interference.
But, government would rather we be divided and therefore conquered…
It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others.
-Thomas Jefferson
February 7th, 2013
Home builders of small aircraft seem to have a mild anti government streak. Many really dislike the FAA. You might be surprised at the number of unlicensed aircraft being flown by unlicensed pilots (mostly in rural areas). Those I know are also gun owners of varying degrees of enthusiasm. As far as moving things around the country under the radar goes there are a lot of potential resources in this group.
February 7th, 2013
I have noticed a lot of paleo diet/ gun/ dog lovers/ freedomistas.
February 7th, 2013
I’m going to second the idea of Ham radio communities; these days there’s a solid intersection with the techies… which could connect with bloggers… or printers (on paper). And I hear tell that there ARE ways, to secure HAM transmissions (tho’ not legally).
Hearing the news, that Sat. USPS mail delivery will soon be a thing of the past… got me wondering whether it’s all that “obsolete” to communicate via snail mail? Kinda hard to monitor mail, unless you open it, right?
I see secure communication as being a “first hurdle”…
February 7th, 2013
A lot of home builders are much more anti government since the bailouts, too. They got an up-close look at how the fed-gov creates a problem, blames everyone but themselves, and then helps only their buddies with the supposed solution. They can tell you some pretty eye opening stories about the inner workings of the banking industry.
February 7th, 2013
Lots of good thoughts here about freedomistas or potential freedomistas in various places. But most responses aren’t quite getting my point (sorry if I was unclear). I’m looking specifically for examples of two (or more) seemingly diverse groups whose efforts could be combined or at least be complementary. Pre-Press Veteran’s example of ham radio people intersecting with other techies is one. And I see another couple of good ones. Gun owners & cannabis activists … ‘nother — though perhaps a stretch of the mind (but that’s okay)
Bottom line: Who works with (or incidentally on behalf of) whom? Extra points for how.
February 7th, 2013
Moonshiners and Home Brewers.
Lots of cross overs here but one is that Gunnies will need in the future a covert means of raising money to fund operations. Providing security for shiners for hire. Trading raw materials for finished product that can be sold or traded for guns and ammo. All kinds of possibilities.
February 7th, 2013
The thing to bear in mind about crossovers, though, is that you can risk LOSING people by the allies you pick up. Drug activists in general – great, nice, wonderful, interesting – and then you start to lose all of the police and prosecutors and and the PIC* and their supporters. Is the trade worth it?
Not saying it isn’t, but it’s something to keep in mind.
*Prison Industrial Complex.
February 7th, 2013
3D Printing. Recycling, repurposing, open source software, swords, plowshares, repair, polymer steam powered trucks, ect., ect., add this to any Gulch, or third world community, and entire local economies, and trade systems, would overwhelm the current stranglehold that exists.
Everyone, old and young, would have skin in the game, combining the ability to generate hardware and durable goods with information for most everyone is one way out of this mess, I think.
February 7th, 2013
Hobbit — Good point. But when on earth did we ever have police, prosecutors, and the Prison-Industrial Complex on our side?
February 8th, 2013
I’m sure the “underground railroad” could fit into Crossovers in some way.
http://www.buildfreedom.com/railroad.htm
February 8th, 2013
I simply do not trust the “hackers”. They are anti-free speech, and anti-private property. Now, there’s a difference between the “hackers” (like Anonymous) and the Cypherpunks. Organizations like the EFF grew out of the Cypherpunk movement. If you are not familliar with Tim May’s “Crypto Anarchy and Virtual Communities”, you should check it out.
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/crypto/cypherpunks/may-virtual-comm.html
Which reminds me, why do you have Tor exit node servers blocked? I can’t access this this site through Tor.
February 9th, 2013
That Tim May piece — an oldie but a goodie. Reminds me of the ‘Net’s most optimistic days.
“Which reminds me, why do you have Tor exit node servers blocked? I can’t access this this site through Tor.”
Sorry about the blocking. It’s not me doing it and it’s not specifically blocking TOR servers. It’s BHM policy and it’s very broad. I have mixed feelings about it because of course I don’t want people blocked when they’re using proxies or any sort of privacy protection. But the broad blocking keeps spam down from hundreds of ugly comments per day to only a dozen or so most days.
Some people have worked directly with webmaster Oliver to get specific blocks removed.
February 9th, 2013
Can we get a Rebelfire Sequel? Please? With sugar on top!
February 9th, 2013
redbear — I’d love to oblige. It would take a TOME to describe why that’s not terribly likely. But regrettably, it’s not terribly likely.
February 12th, 2013
Lots of gun people are also into cars and motorcycles. CAFE regulations are nearly as onerous as gun control.
February 13th, 2013
Ham radio,ot necessarily. There are a lot (most?) who will turn you in for any
and every FCC infraction.
February 13th, 2013
My goodness! Am I the only truck driver that reads these or did I miss truck drivers in the comments above?
CB Radios are in most trucks and all of the older drivers trucks…some young drivers and a few companies do not have/allow them…
I am a vet, old, truck owner and driver, old, welder, construction worker, old, heavy machinery operator, proficent with many firearms, and did I mention old?
February 13th, 2013
@ Kevin –
The kind who wold turn you in are our “enemies,” in a manner of speaking. The kind that have BEEN turned in and had their gear confiscated may be approachable. Or, we could get “our own kind of people” licensed up. It only took me a couple of weeks to study enough to pass the lowest level test. It’s not rocket science.
And speaking of rocket science, maybe we should check out amateur rocketry. One of those guys built a 1/3 scale, two stage Nike Hercules SAM that flies to over 10,000 feet.
February 13th, 2013
How about the “crossover” between Head Honchos of big business (traditionally held to be capitalist) and corrupt U.S. congressmen and senators (traditionally held to be not quite so very communist and fascist).
Ooohhh, …. you meant on OUR side???
February 13th, 2013
Some of my ideas have already been mentioned, but I’d second the general aviation pilot community. They are constantly being hemmed in, regulated and restricted almost out of existence. They exhibit many freedomista traits, as do ocean sailors, long-distance bikers, and some other groups. But the GA pilots can perform a useful service by helping other freedomistas make it to RKBA rallies, for example. In my experience plenty of GA pilots are happy to make a hop just for the price of fuel, if that. Otherwise, they would just go up on a weekend for the fun of it and return to their home field. Small planes with a few hundred mile range can get right into small GA airports/FBOs close to a rally or other RKBA meeting. If you are a pilot and a shooter and a freedomista and you want to know what you can do, perhaps something might come up where the mobility of your airplane is an asset. Just a thought.
Also, I’ve hooked up with volunteers who are doing an audio version of EFAD, and other volunteers who are working on some video projects. Combining talents makes us all more effective. Many (if not most) folks today are not readers, they are “visual learners” who click onto photomemes and videos on Facebook to get their information. Writers teaming up with audio/visual pros is something we need to explore. YouTube makes everybody a potential video producer. Once a freedomista/RKBA video project is launched, we can leverage friendly blogs into a high YouTube hit count.
We don’t own the MSM, obviously, but kids today are increasingly not watching them anyway, instead they are spending more time on the internet on social media. We have as good a chance of reaching them there as the .gov or the MSM. It’s a matter of combining our talents, and then promoting our mutual efforts to obtain viralocity and get our messages out of the RKBA choir to the reachable audience at large. You have to reach your audience where they plant their eyes, and today, that is the internet, so we have a chance to sway them.
For an example of this, my teenage daughter turned me onto the Facebook page “GunControlKills,” where young people share pro RKBA memes. Without anybody directing them. We need to move our efforts onto that electronic battlespace with well produced memes and videos.
February 13th, 2013
Going out on a limb – both Conservative and Liberals are against NDAA, but we refuse to put our other differences aside to get rid of this stain on our American freedoms. COME ON PEOPLE, WE NEED TO BE SMART!
February 13th, 2013
The aspect of Ham Radio isn’t about “turning you in” Kevin.
We “police” our own frequencies and that means that during “normal times” we don’t want folks who are unlicensed using those frequencies.
We certainly DO “cross over”. I’m a gun owner, I’m a retired military man, I’ve been a Patriot all my life like my father before and those going back 6 generations in America. Some fought in the Revolutionary War, some in the Civil War (Both sides), some fought in Korea, some in World War II. We ALL knew and believe in our Constitution.
That we want to protect that which we worked hard to be licensed for and obtain the privileges of using doesn’t make us “bad guys” – but we’re not anarchists either.
Amateur Radio operators work very hard to help protect life, limb and property. We’re the guys who show up without pay to run radios to help the Red Cross, Salvation Army feed and house people displaced from disasters. We help the Fire Fighters coordinate in areas there are no radio systems. We do Skywarn – helping prevent deaths from incoming tornadoes. We also work with the Hurricane hunters to warn the coast lines.
Amateurs are by default, Patriots and will go to the floor helping you – and have.
73, N0NJY
February 13th, 2013
Over The Road truck drivers represent a great opportunity to “direct” some of these heavy gear shipments and AMMO to a “friendlier” place.
In the whole scheme of a waged war, the transportation and logistics of battle implements, Fuel and Ammunition can have a huge impact on a campaign and the ability to show up to a war, skirmish, battle either prepared or unprepared, win or lose situation.
The Conductors running the trains cross country can also play in this game!
OTL drivers and Train Drivers unite with our RKBA and send the shipments to the Patriots, please.
February 13th, 2013
Homeschooling families either Christian or not
February 13th, 2013
Maybe some of our trucker buddies can let us know where all that DHS ammo has been shipped too?
You know just askin.
February 13th, 2013
I would suggest watching the movie “We Are Legion,” a 90-minute documentary on the Anonymous movement. It’s free on youtube, at the following link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE0CPe7t82M
Excellent background, and gives a solid understanding of where they’re at. Interestingly, their assistance with the rebellion in Tunisia has turned them from (largely) a bunch of computer pranksters into a significant force- for good. They’ve become much more aware of the corruption going on within governments worldwide, and are actively working in their own way to fight back. There’s also been some cross-over with more physically active groups, so your point of mutual cooperation and assistance is something I picked up on, just a few weeks ago.
Excellent stuff.
Regards, C.E.