Social security numbers:
Still a battle worth fighting?
One of my old, old articles that still draws occasional questions is one I wrote back in the golden (so it now seems) pre-Patriot Act days — an article about working without a social security number.
The questions always carry a tone of desperation. They’re from people trying to do the right thing for themselves and their families and feeling increasingly pressured.
I have no good answers. So many doors have closed in the last 10 years.
Here’s the latest such letter. My response, such as it is, is below. If you have anything better, fire away in the comments section.
Hello Claire Wolfe,
I just found your article about working without a social security number:
I am a believer in natural living, homebirth, health freedom, homesteading, etc. and my family thinks I am absolutely nuts that I didn’t get my child a social security number at birth. Honestly, I was afraid of my child being monitored for all the so-called vaccines (a higher number every year, and some that are killing kids) that they try to force on children now and I didn’t care so much about the tax write-off. I was asking myself, “Is this going to put my child more into the government database keeping track of all health related records and who knows what else?” As the years go by I feel more pressured to get my child ‘the number’ but don’t want to do something stupid that I will regret. I myself of course have one (that I got only when I was a teenager starting a job) and never understood why a baby would even need one for a system that will not have any money when the child is grown anyway.
My husband is in the process of getting a spousal visa to come here and of course had to do the biometric visa junk and who knows what else. On his paperwork the box is checked for him to receive a social security number as well. I feel like we just have to deal with the fact he will be better off having one to not have any more headache.
I have tried to defend my position (some call it being paranoid, but to me it was nerve-wracking), but honestly I feel like I am about to give in and just go get the child a social security number so I can purchase insurance, open a savings account in the child’s name and so on.
As you said here, “No law requires you to get a Social Security number, even today. But try functioning in the everyday world of work, banking, credit, schooling, home-buying, or even video rental without one.”
Exactly. I went to the bank the other day and was told I could NOT open a minor savings account with the minor’s social security number, period. I was told my only other option was to keep a minimum $300 balance on a regular savings in my name (a minor account has no minimum balance of course) with the child listed as ‘payable on death’ and the child could still never be added without that number.
I plan to homeschool and am generally afraid of losing my freedom more everyday. Do you think I am giving in to a bad system to get the social security number and just quit fighting this particular battle?
Thanks,
Lisa D.
As I said, I have no good answers for anybody in Lisa’s position. But the question of picking battles is always a valid one for all of us who give a damn.
Do I think you should quit fighting this particular battle, Lisa?
What I think doesn’t matter. All that matters is what you want vs what you can bear.
If you want to have a “normal” life, operating within the system, then yes, you probably should quit fighting this particular battle. That’s not to say you should give up, accept defeat, and kowtow to Our Masters. That’s just to say that the sheer exhaustion of trying to raise an un-numbered child within the system (not to mention the stigma that peers and adults might put on your child) might take away energy you need to do something more productive.
Even the one feeble “solution” your bank dangled before you — “payable on death” is piss-poor. Obviously, you shouldn’t have to die for your child to get his or her money. And even if you did, the bank would make a numberless heir beg, threaten, and/or pay penalties on the money before turning it over. (Who knows what new restrictions will be in place at that time? For all we know, a numberless person attempting to claim money years from now might be automatically considered a terrorist; we’re close to that point already. “If you see something, say something!”)
BUT … if you choose to quit this particular battle and put your child “within the system,” be sure to choose to live your freedom and defend your child’s freedom on some other front — which it sounds as if you’re fully prepared to do.
If you truly want to keep your child free of the dangers of citizen tracking numbers, then recognize that there are other options besides the mainstream. Quit banging your head on things like bank accounts. That’s not the only way to save (and in these days of zero interest it’s actually a pathetic way to save). Opening a bank account for an unnumbered person is a nightmare. But you can still buy silver and small amounts of gold — in complete, numberless anonymity if you want to. You can still set up various trusts and small corporations to transact business for your child, especially since you and your husband are already stuck with, and presumably continuing to use, numbers.
Forget what any “establishment” expects of you. Go elsewhere. Options already exist. As conventional financial systems fall, new opportunities and options may crop up. Watch for them. Or create them for yourself.
Even head-banging can be useful. I know. You’ve run up against intractable problems and this is only the beginning. But sometimes trying to do the right thing and failing is useful in itself. Only by testing the limits do we really come to understand just how far tyranny has already reached and how much farther it might go to keep its fearsome hold on power. And of course, people who continue to nudge and prod at seemingly immovable systems sometimes do end up changing systems in the long run.
So you never know. It depends on who you are, what you’re willing to put up with, which battles mean the most to you.
All I can say is, “Good luck” — and whatever choice you make, don’t let it be a defeat.
Oh. And if anybody noticed that the three options I just described fit pretty well the profiles of the Mole, the Ghost, and The Agitator … it really is coincidence.
I wasn’t thinking of those at all when I wrote the above. Again and again they just happen to turn up as very apt profiles for a variety of Freedom Outlaws.*
—–
* That last link is to Mac the Knife’s First Freedom Outlaw Brigade store. NFI on my part. I just think Mac and his artist did a great job and have produced terrific fun stuff for any Outlaw who wants to show his or her colors.
August 17th, 2011 at 6:43 am
Ah shucks Claire. Thanks for the praise again. Anyone who wants to suggest a new caption for the three Freedom Outlaws put in your suggestion in the comments.
August 17th, 2011 at 6:58 am
C.W. wrote, “(and in these days of zero interest it’s actually a pathetic way to save).”
As I read the letter That’s exactly what I was thinking too.
I imagine those People who call someone paranoid for not getting a Social Security number are also the same types of People who would tell someone they are crazy for not having cable TV or satellite TV service.
It also reminds me of those who said in 2004 that anyone who thinks housing and real estate are in a bubble, is crazy,… they were adamant that housing prices would never ever drop and you’d have to be paranoid to not get as much a home loan as you possibly could.
And that’s why we had strawberry pickers making $14,000 yr. getting ruinous unpayable loans to buy $400,000 houses, “they” said you were not normal if you didn’t. See how well that worked out?
Anyway, I’m in the camp that says a child should get to make the decision to get a Social Security number when they turn eighteen as getting one can’t be undone.
~2 Cents.
August 17th, 2011 at 7:04 am
FWIW, my wife and I have three children, none are enumerated. They all have insurance, I’ve never had a problem getting them that. We homeschool two, the third starts a cyber charterschool this fall, also without a number.
When asked for a number for whatever reason, we usually reply with “He was born here so was not required to get a number”, the questioner gets that confused look for a moment (like a puppy) and then continues doing whatever we wanted him to do.
Since I only file the tax returns when obligated to do so, losing the kids as a deduction has never been an issue.
We have not tried getting them bank accounts but, as Claire points out, there are better ways of handling your money and as she also mentioned there are ways for the unnumbered to interface with the statist world.
August 17th, 2011 at 7:24 am
I’ve found that most requests for a SSN really just want a number to attach. i’ve freely handed out 123-23-1332 to those requests.
If they want a number, give them one. If they want documents to go with that number, then you have to use a real one.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:16 am
My youngest daughter was numbered because the hospital thug (in a nurse uniform) came in and threatened her mom while I was out of the room. The “nurse” made all kinds of veiled threats about child welfare agencies looking into the situation if we refused to number her. Apparently she just kept asking why we wouldn’t want a number for our daughter, and hinting that refusing was a sign of abuse. Her mom, being a spineless statist moron, caved in. I will probably never forgive anyone involved for that. Yeah, my kind and gentle veneer has some thin spots.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
I notice she mentioned that her husband required a spousal visa. This implies that her husband is not a US citizen. Perhaps they would be better off in her husband’s country. Or somewhere else in the world. There are many opportunities outside the US. In many places it is easier to live free(er) than it is in the states.
August 17th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Great advice on the silver and gold, Claire….and a good reminder that if someone is going to think “outside of the box,” that should include alternatives to banks and wall street……
August 17th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
You should never give out a ‘fake’ number because it could really belong to a real person which could cause them some real difficulties.
However years ago wallets usued to come with a fake social security card and a number that didn’t belong to anyone. If you could dig up that number and use it you wouldn’t be putting someone else at risk of the wrath of the ‘authorities’.
August 17th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
hanza- Or do as Claire has mentioned (in “Don’t Shoot the Bastards Yet”- page 96) a person might do- use a number that belonged to someone who doesn’t need it anymore because their condition has “stabilized”. Permanently. Someone like Elvis Presley: 409-52-2002.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
It’s a nice thought – trying to protect children from becoming meat for a Leviathan. Unfortunately the state will not tolerate flotsam and jetsam without claiming ownership. Opt-out, drop-out, bug-out, or just try to hide – they will eventually find you and your children. Even home schooling is regulated, isn’t it?
Maybe one answer, for now anyway, lies in not dwelling on this symbol of state authority which is just a number after all, or wasting energy with token resistance. There are reasons to believe more important matters are at hand.
August 18th, 2011 at 7:49 am
Beware the fake number thing.
This used to be an OK idea, but these days, many of the ‘official’ places can do a quick check with the Soc Sec administration to see if the number matches the name. I know for a fact that some driver license places will do this..don’t know if banks and such are allowed access to the database…My guess is that they are….all to fight terrer, dontcha know.
August 18th, 2011 at 8:34 am
Transposing a number or two, when dealing with the merely nosy, answers the question while providing plausible deniability should the situation escalate.
Not that I know that from personal experience or anything.
August 18th, 2011 at 9:22 am
I can only address one of the issues – that of medical privacy. You are correct that health records are no longer private. In 2014 they will be on the internet. The 2009 “stimulus” bill legislated for a “nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and accurate exchange of health information” containing “each patient’s health information,” and “a certified electronic health record for each person in the United States by 2014.” – American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Title IV, Subtitle A, Sec. 3002 (b) (2) (B) (ii,iii), p. 454, accessible at http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf. Sorry to be so long-winded, but I want people to be able to verify what I am saying.
There is a way to avoid this, however. Doctors that simply take direct payment do not have to turn their records in to the government to be put into this database. It is through HIPAA, or the so-called “privacy regulations,” that the varmints claim doctors’ records. Any doctor that falls under the jurisdiction of HIPAA is required to turn over all his patients’ records upon request to the Dept of Health and Human Services. When those regulations were passed, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons sued because it was such an obvious violation of the 4th Amendment. They were told that because none of their members had yet been hurt, they did not have standing to sue. However, in a motion to dismiss the case, the DHHS conceded that “the proverbial country doctor who deals only in paper, or who has a computer but conducts none of the transactions referred to in section 1173(a) electronically, would not be a covered entity, and would not be subject to this legislation.” – see http://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/hipaadismiss.doc. Thus, if you see a doctor who does not work in the insurance system, and therefore does not conduct certain electronic transactions, then the federal varmints cannot take his records and post them online. Doctors can even supply medications, thus avoiding pharmacy records.
August 18th, 2011 at 9:23 am
I might be wrong on this point, but I believe the Amish and similar groups operate businesses,open bank accounts and all that without SocSec numbers-I know they get by with only a thumbprint on their drivers’ license(their religion has a thing against photos)-the catch is they have to find someone to vouch for them.
To be honest, I thought you had to get one now-my cousin’s children were given one at birth(I think they’re used as an identifier in school-again, I may be wrong on that point). I didn’t get one until I was 16 and started getting paycheck jobs(side note-prior to that,I made more riding a bike up and down the road picking up deposit bottles..yeah, this was back in the day…than your typical burger flipper did,in less time,and with getting 450 degree grease slopped on me).
I suspect there are plenty of people who are “off the radar”-I’d bet it’s a lot easier to do in a rural area than a urban one.
August 18th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Tough question with no easy answer. Without an SSAN in our society you become an anomalie, one who will stick out because of the lack of SSAN. Those that stick out are remembered. Fake ID is a pretty decent answer until it is actually checked against the database. Most generic, fill in the SSAN forms that are just put into a metal cabinet would probably work okay though, until the round up of dissidents began, the people without a numeric presence system would be the first to the concentration camps.
One could get an SSAN to keep from being quite so anomalous and then keep the lowest profile possible, only using it when there is absolutely no choice in the matter. How often does one use their SSAN on a daily basis? But, eventually it would be required. Basically it would require one to be reclusive and not part of society, probably not a great loss.
Finally there is the no SSAN ever. One would have to live in the seams of society to avoid the hassles. It would be best to live in a community that understood and was sympathetic. You would have to find medical care that didn’t need tons of information etc. Possible, just something that would always have to be scrupously managed. I’d avoid living with like minded individuals though, it makes it easier for the government to find excuse to raid and terrorize you kids if you bunch up.
August 18th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
Hey at the time that my daughter was born 23 years ago, we kinda
had to get her numbered to bring her home. She was born in
London, England. Also passport and shots.I am still not against
shots, because she has traveled to a 3rd world country as a
missionary at 18.And also until this pass Janurary she was on
my husbands medical. Now at 23 her medical has jumped to more
than we can afford.also with this child when she was younger she
seemed to get stricpic throat and ear infections alot. So we needed
the insurance. Now I can take her to Urgent care without the insurance and it is cheaper for as little as we take her. So in our case we did go with the flow, because of where she was born and
how sick she seem to get when she was younger. I did homeschool
her and did not turn in any grades. In fact I did not keep any grades and now she is getting a 3.5 point grade average in college.
But any way blessing for any way that you do go.
Debby
August 18th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
I have read that Obamination has 16 social security numbers. One of them that he used when he got his selective service registration is from CT where he has never lived and that previously belonged to a long dead guy.
Every thing about his past is phony.
August 18th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
I am sorry but can I add something about homeschooling,which
I think is more important than any ssn number. My Daughter is taking Early Childhood development in colllege.What she learned last semister was that by the age of 5 bleive or not a child’s mind is
kinda set.They learn there vocabulary words in blocks. Now I am going to give you an arbitrary number. If they learn in blocks of 500
then for the rest of there lives they will learn there voca words in
blocks of 500. And I am thinking most of want our children to learn
in bigger blocks then that. after my husband retired from the military
and we moved home, I ran into another women whose husband was also station in England.I think that she was reading Shasphire
and I can’t spell, but any way was reading him by the kids were about two years old. Also read Reillys luck by Louis L’ Amour. He had a boy who could recipt Alfred Lord Tenneyson by the time he was ten. Also I have heard on t.v. that they are stopping teaching
cursive writing in some schools because kids are using laptops,etc.
So thank God you are going to homeschool.
Again Blessings,
Debby